CAP 4 CAP 4 - Base Stat Submission Thread

[Dane]

Why does it have to be faster than Syclant? I don't think we should be making a poke that can switch into every non-scarfed poke and Encore/Screen. We should be careful not to make it too useful.

Because I'd like something that can actually use Haze without being obliterated. The only ways to accomplish this are high speed or high defenses. 105 or whatever wouldn't even be able to outspeed an Infernape, let alone Haze it if it pulled off a Nasty Plot.

If Encore/Screen is such a problem, and this ends up with high speed and you used some sort of stat-up move or the such the previous turn... switch out. It's not like this will get Shadow Tag or Arena Trap, so you can switch as it Encores, giving you a free switch to a counter.

 

[User 12783]

Alright I changed mine up a lot.

 

[omgthatkid]

Ah, my spread is resembling a bulked up Starmie.
Not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing that out.

 

[1059860]

Somewhere with 110/60/98/35/100/132 would be good, I suggest. Only Ninjask, Electrode and Deoxys-S can outrun this thing in OU. With 110 HP, it can tank Night Shade and Seismic Toss for 1 turn.

BST would be same as Crobat/Swampert at 535.

 

[LoZDestroyer]

I've played around with X-Act's applet for a while. It's really quite cool.

Anyway, with some tweaking, I came up with

80/70/110/65/100/115

Which gives it a moderate Defensive bias and a bias towards Physical. The attack stat isn't great, but it's not weak, either. I mean, Dusclops fired Shadow Balls pretty well from 70 base Atk. The Speed is great, but not insane, at least enough to beat the latest and greatest in speedy threats (Infernape and Garchomp)

It has the defenses to take a non SE hit on the switch-in, then speedily spit out *Insert Support Move* and GTFO, if need be. I believe, too, that 85 base HP and 100 SpD can be EV'd to survive Ice Beams quite handily. I mean, 160 SpD EVs lets Salamence survive them, and he's 4x weak to 'em, not to mention he has 80 base SpD.

So, the spread gives it the speed it needs, and the defense it needs to come in and Support like it should. If it does manage to get trapped, it can fire off attacks with decent effectiveness.

 

[omgthatkid]

Alright, base 105 SpAtk makes Draco Meteor a guaranteed KO on Garchomp without any evs.
That's also enough to OHKO Heatran with Earth Power.
That doesn't do too much on Tyranitar though.
I'll do more calculations later.

 

[latinoheat]

GT's is around the same spread i had in mind,except slightly more attack over one of the defences. Seriously can we ban shitty speed numbers that havent been done like 132, wasn't there enough trouble with the whole 121 spd on scylant.

 

[Ancax]

My idea:

Attack:80
Defense:120
Special Attack:45
Special Defense:85
Speed:125
HP:80

Total:535

Just an idea, 80 Attack so it can actually DO something when Utility is no longer an option. Most Poison types have around 85 Attack anyway. The high Speed is to breeze past the annoying OU Pokes trying to kill you before the Utility can begin. I will work more on my spread...

 

[Shiny Noctowl]

If the second type is Ground:
HP: 105
Attack: 80
Defense: 125
Special Attack: 20
Special Defense: 110
Speed: 120

If the second type is Dragon:
HP: 85
Attack: 20
Defense: 120
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 125
Speed: 130

Total: 560

 

[Blln]

Speed seems like a really big waste of stat points :/. What is the benefit of being that fast? A fast Encore or Taunt is always useful, but not more useful than actual usable attacking stats. If you look at something like Gliscor, which is very fast by supporting pokemon standards, he is generally fast enough to do everything he wants to do. I would support a speed from 85-105, anything else just seems like overkill.

I also agree this thing should have a slight physical defensive bias, if only because it makes a great counter to many fighting types. I think I would prefer the HP to be higher than the defenses, but not to the extent of Pyroak. Lastly, I think this thing should have usable attack stats, like 85-100 or something similar. It looks like Dragon is going to win the poll, and if this things STAB types are Poison and Dragon, its going to need to be hitting somewhat hard because it won't ever be hitting super effective.

So with those points in mind, I would suggest a spread like 110 / 66 / 94 /103 / 82 / 90. BST 545, with Speed being last. This comes out as a balanced pokemon, similar to a faster, weaker version of Swampert. I think this is the mold we should be going for, as I really think a pokemon with two bad stab moves and <90 base attacking stats will not be able to compete in the D/P metagame. This pokemon can't be giving things like Garchomp and Lucario free switchins every time it comes in.

So yeah, I would prefer a set like the one I proposed. It just seems more viable in today's metagame.

 

[omgthatkid]

I'm still thinking we should lean special in the offensive department.
I say we go no lower than 80 in SpAtk, because we don't need this thing to be extremely weak, like Umbreon and Claydol. If those two were a bit better, they could get loads more done. I still like that 105 SpAtk if it becomes part Dragon for the reasons I've stated previously.
And.....SPEED!!!!!
I really think we should have speed.
I'm really aiming for in between Garchomp and Dugtrio.
That way it'll be fast, but not too fast.

 

[DDRMaster]

I completely agree with latino heat and dougjustdoug. 100-115 will let it outspeed things without going crazy.

 

[latinoheat]

So basically if its poison/dragon you want something that hits nearly as hard and is faster then specsmence, but is meant to be a utility pokemon. Every dragon in the game gets Draco meteor there is a good chance this will, thats reason enough to not give it over 70 special attack. Chainchomp rips apart alot of pokemon with just 80 and draco meteor.

 

[BARILLIAN]

Agreed - I would suggest at least 105 or 110 Speed to threaten Garchomp with an Ice move on switchin and still outspeed it, so that it will think twice before trying to switch in. So, this thing should be able to
a) Survive Scarfed Garchomp Earthquake.
b) 2HKO most Garchomp with an Ice move (Depends on whether we want Ice Beam on this thing, but better go with HPIce too to be safe) reliably. I really don't think 35-40 SAttack can pull that off, so I'd suggest a bit higher.

People are hating both Poison/Ground and Poison/Dragon because of the ease Garchomp can come in and ruin the day, so our supporter should be able to threaten him in some way.

Due to its myriad of weaknesses, I believe a high BST is justified, and that is exactly what I'm seeing on the thread.

 

[latinoheat]

I am under the impression that as a fast utlity pokemon, the best it should do against Garchomp is predicting a Swords dance, a sub, or a resisted hit(Stone Edge or Fire blast, type dependant) then either encore it or set up a screen, and let something else on your team then come in and set up or take out garchomp.

My impression of this from the description is basically a fast bronzong with more utility moves but a shitter typing. The only things it should be doing considerable damage to are against weak those hit super effective by its stab moves.

 

[omgthatkid]

So basically if its poison/dragon you want something that hits harder and faster then specsmence, but is meant to be a utility pokemon. Every dragon in the game gets Draco meteor there is a good chance this will, thats reason enough to not give it over 70 special attack. Chainchomp rips apart alot of pokemon with just 80 and draco meteor.

Not harder. Faster. And Specmence does have a viable attacking movepool.
As I suggested earlier, this Pokemon should have a limited offense-based movepool in order to focus more on utility rather than attacking.
Salamence will probably have a higher BST than this thing too, unless we somehow agree to give it a 600 BST, which isn't likely. Salamence was built to attack on its movepool alone. I just want this thing to have a credible SpAtk stat and I'm merely putting that calculation out there. We don't have to have a base 105 SpAtk, we could easily lower it to a respectable 85 and have anyone who wants to ev up to KO Garchomp do so. Since this thing is part Poison, I don't see this thing destroying teams with a Sludge Bomb off of 105 SpAtk. And that may be one of its best attacking moves. Crobat is fast with a decent Attack stat, but it's held back from sweeping by its shallow and weak physical movepool

 

[darkie]

Because I'd like something that can actually use Haze without being obliterated. The only ways to accomplish this are high speed or high defenses.

Crobat has excellent speed, above average defenses, and Haze! Sounds like just the poke you're looking for.



Anyway, Doug and I discussed the speed issue a while back on the server. We concluded that 105 is a good speed number for a utility poke. 110 starts to outclass Jumpluff, while 115 is Starmie territory.

My spread is 99 HP / 70 Atk / 90 Def / 86 SpA / 90 SpD / 105 Spe for a total BST of 540 and a stat rating of 338, Very Good. This is on the same level as Infernape, Electivire, etc.

I started out with the 105 speed as mentioned before, and put just 87s for the other stats to work this. I knew this had to be somewhat defensive, so I increased defenses while decreasing attack. However, I didn't want to decrease the attack too much, so I limited myself to 70. The HP may look like an odd number to most of you, but I picked a number lower than 99 for a reason. This poke shouldn't (in my opinion) be able to make 101 HP subs. That 100 base HP is a key number for many set up sweepers including Tyranitar, Swampert, Jirachi, and even Celebi. The defenses are above average at 90, yet the poke is not too defensively biased. The SpA provides a decent number to do some damage off of a single STAB attack.

 

[Dane]

Crobat has excellent speed, above average defenses, and Haze! Sounds like just the poke you're looking for.

Perhaps, but then what's he do once they're hazed? He doesn't really do anything, whereas this thing would be able to setup screens or what have you. I see your point though.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Is outclassing Jumpluff by putting 110 speed on this guy a bad thing? Still been messing around with stat spread, mostly staying within the 540-550 range. Now, going within the 600 range, I "supposedly" found more breathing room when creating spreads.

One question I have is do certain BST yield certain overall ratings? Do all 600 BST pokemon yield 630 in their overall rating?

 

[darkie]

I actually can't remember why 110 was too high, but I think it was something about Jumpluff or Gengar or something. My main point of that paragraph was that 105 seems pretty good. 110 I suppose is plausible, but anything above that is off limits imo.

 

[omgthatkid]

One question I have is do certain BST yield certain overall ratings? Do all 600 BST pokemon yield 630 in their overall rating?

Nope. Hp affects tankiness and offensive/defensive balance. Speed affects everything a little bit I think.
so a 105/100/100/100/100/95 Pokemon has an overall rating of 625
Read X-Act's info about that calculator to see specifically how that works.
I kind of get it, but I don't think I can explain it well

 

[PeteDHeat]

Poison/Dragon:
Hp:90
Atck:80
Def:120
Sp.Atck:45
Sp.Def:120
Speed:115

I think 120 for both defenses makes it a relatively good wall in both spectrums. Plus the speed it could set up something like Reflect or Light Screen before getting hit. Thick fat should be one of the Abilities in case it is Dragon.

 

[Erik]

100/75/90/30/110/90

This thing is meant to be Utility and I see most of it's attacks being ATTACK based anyway so it has no need for special attack. The HP is so that it can get 404 and put up subs that aren't broken by S-Toss. It also doesn't need to be THAT fast. I just don't see the purpose of a set up pokemon that has to out speed aero, electrode, crobat, jolteon etc. SpD is higher to give it resistance against Ice, Psychic and possible water.

 

[DDRMaster]

I think this Pokemon should be only slightly biased to physical or special. One attack shouldn't be 80 while the other is 20.

 

[omgthatkid]

If we did a 600 BST Pokemon, I'd suggest this:
115/60/106/105/103/111
Overall Rating: 717, Fantastic!
It isn't as good as Garchomp though...Garchomp gets about 800.