Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

[Bughouse]

complaining about lines to vote in california is particularly rich considering California was allowing ALL voters to vote by mail, for free (ie no postage), with no excuse required to be eligible.

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voter-registration/vote-mail/

You don't even have to have it arrive before election day. As long as it is postmarked on election day, it can arrive a week later and still be counted (which is why the CA totals won't be finalized for a while).

Texas on the other hand definitely is republican fuckery around closing off ballot access through fewer polling locations, etc.

Texas lets rather few people vote by mail:
https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/voter/reqabbm.shtml
(note - largest category here by far is the old people, who are more likely to vote republican. Hardly providing ballot access to everyone equally here!)

 

[zf]

Most polls close at like 7 or 8 local time and most jobs allow for like an hour or two off to vote, depending on where they are. Not saying it’s enough and that this isn’t a real deterrent to young / employed people voting, in just saying I don’t think it’s as large of an impact as you claim.

44% of workers get paid time off on election day, and 29% get unpaid time off

Slightly more than 1 out of 4 workers has no option for any time off during elections, and another 1 out of 4 workers have to miss out on pay in order to vote (which can be crucial to pay the bills). That’s over half the voterbase! Additionally, this only applies to federal/yearly elections; if you want to vote in a primary, you need to dedicate PTO to do so.

Polling sites generally do have long hours, usually from 7 am to 7-8 pm, but it still takes effort to make it there if you’ve been working all day. I imagine the amount of active voters in the US would certainly increase if it didn’t take as much extra effort to make it out to the polls.

 

[EB0LA]

Yeah also the risk of the Corona Virus prevented people from showing up as well, let's throw that in there too.

#BernieCheatedOutOfNomAgain
#WheresYourBlueNoMatterWhatAtNow
#TimeForA3rdPartyModerates/ProgressivesSplit
#TrumpWinsAgain
#ThankGodWeWon

Edit: A Biden/Warren ticket sounds heat tbh.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Bloomberg is out!!! Hope he stays out of politics FOREVER. If this wasn't a serious thread, I would throw a lot of other words at him right now.

I'm expecting that Warren will drop and endorse Sanders soon. While I will TERRIBLY miss seeing her electric performances on the debate stage (and I don't look forward to seeing two old white men debate), I am hoping Sanders uses her strengths as much as he can. Having her campaign for him in states like New York and Michigan (Sanders beat Clinton in Michigan by a narrow margin in 2016) could be really helpful, and I think she could really sharpen his edge if she does debate practice with him and teaches him a thing or two.

I agree with a lot of people in this thread that voting should be easier, and that voting for younger people in general is harder. We need voting reform, and not just in one direction.
-yeet the electoral college for the general
-have voting day national holidays
-for the love of this country, PLEASE allow some form of ranked choice voting so that people aren't constantly voting based on the popular lesser-of-two-evils candidate

The sad thing is, so much of the onus to get voting reform done lies upon us young people being able to surge through and get shit done despite these difficulties, and if we don't buckle up and get it done now then we'll be complaining about it forever.

Sanders, you need to wake up too and fight harder than you ever have before *_* Don't slouch away from this challenge when we need you.

 

[a fairy]

Looks like Warren is out. We now have (Gabbard and minor candidates aside) a two person race. So weird coming from the start with 20+.

 

[Machoke]

For the love of god let Tulsi on the debate stage so she could team up with Bernie vs Biden

 

[RaikouLover]

Not gonna argue that about the long lines stuff but I wanted to address this:

As a young person who has recently entered the workforce, I get 10 days PTO and 0 days of sick leave. I’m also not allowed to use any PTO until 6 months of working at my position. Someone with 15 years experience in the same position as me has 20 days PTO and 5-10 days of sick leave, as well as more flexibility in terms of leaving work early or taking a long lunch. It’s not hard to see that my PTO is more valuable than his, especially since it has to cover medical leave as well.


That’s not even addressing the fact that most low-paying jobs (more likely to be filled by a young person) have no PTO whatsoever.

It’s hard to vote if you’re young, and doubly so if you’re poor.

Election day should be a national holiday.

Yes, it should. That’s why all need to support Democratic candidates up and down the ticket this November. H.R.1 makes Election Day a Federal Holiday. It is currently sitting on Mitch McConnell’s desk.

 

[politics understander]

Why is no one talking about the real issues...


William 'Bill' Weld is running for republican president 2020.

Unity is the most important thing in this race, more important than 'policies' or 'not being racist'. We need to put our differences aside and come together to defeat evil Donald Trump. Billiam Weld is a dark horse in this race and when nobody is looking he will steal the presidency from do nothing democrats and trump (i had faith in you buddy but when you said john oliver's show is boring that was where i drew the line)

Yes he is not even a democrat, and yes he is extremely unpopular. But he is also not trump and definitely not bernie (yuck). Isn't that the most important thing at the end of the day?

 

[Pyritie]

Why is no one talking about the real issues...


William 'Bill' Weld is running for republican president 2020.

Unity is the most important thing in this race, more important than 'policies' or 'not being racist'. We need to put our differences aside and come together to defeat evil Donald Trump. Billiam Weld is a dark horse in this race and when nobody is looking he will steal the presidency from do nothing democrats and trump (i had faith in you buddy but when you said john oliver's show is boring that was where i drew the line)

Yes he is not even a democrat, and yes he is extremely unpopular. But he is also not trump and definitely not bernie (yuck). Isn't that the most important thing at the end of the day?

nice alt account

 

[Myzozoa]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-GBP29miEV-MATR8ip0mq4m818XQ9nrUJKBiuO9Gg9g3M

joe biden gonna lose harder than john kerry

 

[RaikouLover]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-GBP29miEV-MATR8ip0mq4m818XQ9nrUJKBiuO9Gg9g3M

joe biden gonna lose harder than john kerry

That’s a garbage analysis. Few things:

1) Stop rooting for Trump to win just because voters keep rejecting Sanders

2) Trump is a highly unpopular incumbent. There is no running against “the establishment” when you are the fucking establishment.

3) The generic ballot has favored Democrats by no less than 6% for the entirety of Trumps Presidency.

4) Biden is not a woman

5) For the millionth time, policy does not dictate voting behavior. Joe Biden is a clear contrast to Trump in both tone and political history. Sanders reminds a lot of voters of Trump.

 

[termi]

1) Stop rooting for Trump to win just because voters keep rejecting Sanders

did you know there is a difference between predicting something and hoping for it?

2) Trump is a highly unpopular incumbent. There is no running against “the establishment” when you are the fucking establishment.

doesn't matter, as long as trump can profile himself as the guy "draining the swamp" he will be perceived as anti-establishment irregardless of how embedded in the establishment he actually is (let's be honest, he was already "establishment" in 2016 and still won with an anti-elite message)

3) The generic ballot has favored Democrats by no less than 6% for the entirety of Trumps Presidency.

this is the only valid argument u have given. this says absolutely nothing about biden's qualities though. he'd make for a bad nominee and trump will definitely wipe the floor with him in any debates. if biden does win, it is in spite of himself

4) Biden is not a woman

he is, however, senile (moreso than trump)

5) For the millionth time, policy does not dictate voting behavior. Joe Biden is a clear contrast to Trump in both tone and political history. Sanders reminds a lot of voters of Trump.

u still have not proven ur claims with any data and appear to be generalizing what the average american citizen thinks based on what bluecheck liberal twitter thinks. sanders's "tone" only sounds bad to people who are privileged enough to think tone is more important than substance. there is a difference between racist demagoguery and a passionate plea for economic justice, im willing to wager that most people who are not #StillWithHer are capable of understanding that

 

[RaikouLover]

did you know there is a difference between predicting something and hoping for it?

doesn't matter, as long as trump can profile himself as the guy "draining the swamp" he will be perceived as anti-establishment irregardless of how embedded in the establishment he actually is (let's be honest, he was already "establishment" in 2016 and still won with an anti-elite message)

this is the only valid argument u have given. this says absolutely nothing about biden's qualities though. he'd make for a bad nominee and trump will definitely wipe the floor with him in any debates. if biden does win, it is in spite of himself

he is, however, senile (moreso than trump)

u still have not proven ur claims with any data and appear to be generalizing what the average american citizen thinks based on what bluecheck liberal twitter thinks. sanders's "tone" only sounds bad to people who are privileged enough to think tone is more important than substance. there is a difference between racist demagoguery and a passionate plea for economic justice, im willing to wager that most people who are not #StillWithHer are capable of understanding that

Trump is the incumbent in 2020. Whether he characterizes himself as a unicorn or a devil is of no consequence because he now has a record. Rhetoric once perceived as aspiration sounds more and more like bullshit when you are the incumbent.

Joe looks more Senile than Sanders, Warren, and Bloomberg yet still ran the table with no detailed policies or campaign infrastructure. That's all the "data" needed.

Sanders supporters really need to stop calling black voters "privileged."

 

[termi]

Trump is the incumbent in 2020. Whether he characterizes himself as a unicorn or a devil is of no consequence because he now has a record.

yeah that will probably be a problem for him to some degree, but i dont expect most people to look very deeply into his record (at least trump voters dont seem to have noticed that he became part of the swamp he promised to drain). he can still profile himself as anti-establishment by fencing with the impeachment and the general liberal rhetoric against him fwiw

Joe looks more Senile than Sanders, Warren, and Bloomberg yet still ran the table with no detailed policies or campaign infrastructure. That's all the "data" needed.

yeah cuz he's got the famous name and the party + media establishment really like him. i think this is not so much a case of "people like him because his tone is different from trump's" and more one of "people watch cable news and cable news says bernie's a weird old commie and uncle joe is a good old boy (i exaggerate but you get my point)." i doubt that the same people who don't care much about policy care a whole lot about tone either, it's more likely that they vote based on recognizability + biased info presented by the media

it is worth noting btw that he does not have a clear advantage over sanders yet, so hold your horses before saying he ran the table with the rest lol

Sanders supporters really need to stop calling black voters "privileged."

i said nothing abt black voters being privileged nor abt u specifically being privileged, what i am saying is that the stuff ur saying is constantly reminding me of the rhetoric of relatively privileged people and that you should be more careful with generalizing that rhetoric without any evidence to back the idea up that these voices are representative of the dem voter base at large

 

[ButteredToast]

I live in Ohio. Mailed my vote for Joe Biden in today. Couldn't be more happy with how this process has shaped out recently.

 

[tcr]

the whole “Sanders needs to watch his tone” reeks of that white moderate MLK snippet from birmingham letters. its insane how people dont see it. similarly his calls for economic revolution and people saying that the overton window needs to just gradually change.

re: “establishment,” people dont dislike “estalbishment” in the sense of current government, they dislike neoliberal economically conservative socially liberal when conveniently polled policies. biden is a stooge just like clinton was and just like pete is, a long line of shadow puppets backed by billionaire financiers who dont want health care and pharma reform because it cuts into their profits, or education reforms or military reforms.

what policies does biden have to attract turnout that differs from the apathy of previous generations? sorry but the whole “supreme court” scare tactic vbnmw people have been trying doesnt budge for me, i want something with substance that can affect the daily life of the common american. feel free to sell me on these policies as i am not aware of them, for this reason i think trump is gonna win.

 

[VannAccessible]

I read a few pages back to catch up.

I just want to pipe in on one point I’ve seen made frequently: Joe Biden is not senile. He is perfectly mentally capable. His long history of verbal missteps and gaffes can be traced back years, and is likely a symptom related to the fact he has a stutter.

I disagree with Joe Biden policy wise, and think the continuation of the same neoliberal policies that lead many voters dissatisfied with Hillary Clinton in 2016 and lead Trump to be elected is a serious error.
Having said that, there’s no reason to throw low blows at Joe Biden like that. He has a stutter. Not dementia (unlike Trump who is displaying symptoms and the details of his physicals are suspicious, to say the least).

Despite this, it won’t prevent Trump from running with this narrative and taking full advantage of Biden’s handicap. This is the guy who mocked a disabled reporter after all. Between this and the Hunter Biden “scandal”, I don’t like Joe’s chances in the general. I’m worried he’ll fall apart in a debate, being baited easily into Donald’s bullshit.

Sincerely, a Bernie supporter.

 

[fanyfan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236064250902310915

Something to think about for you “Loyal democrats” out there who support Biden

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

While I think Bernie would have a better chance at winning in the general than Biden, I keep hearing from my fellow Bernie supporters about how Biden apparently has no chance. This is an argument that I feel can only be made in complete ignorance of how consistently unpopular Trump has been throughout his entire term. Approval averages gave him a net positive approval rating until about two weeks into his term and he's been consistently underwater since. At this point in their respective first terms, Obama's net approval rating was within a normal polling error and G.W. Bush was above water.

I wouldn't say that Trump's consistently shoddy job approval numbers are a surefire indicator that he won't be re-elected (he was unpopular when he was first running and benefited from the fact that his opponent was also unpopular), but the point is that Trump is extremely unpopular with everyone but his die-hard base of Republican supporters. Just a few examples from the midterms demonstrating how unpopular he is: A Democrat was elected to the House of Representatives from Oklahoma, Arizona elected a Democrat to the Senate for the first time since the 1980s, and Beto O'Rourke came closer to winning a statewide race in Texas than any Democrat since Ann Richards.

That said, since it's looking increasingly clear that Biden will be the nominee, he better be preparing responses to any potential Trump attacks *cough* Hunter Biden *cough* right now because he's gonna need to have a damn good response to that to improve his chances in the general.

 

[politics understander]

BROKE: biden cannot beat trump

WOKE: even when biden does beat trump the material conditions which elected trump into power are still present and will allow for another trump to replace biden, who is melting before our eyes, in 2024. All that will change is the structure of the supreme court, everything else will remain the same; children will still be locked up, you still wont have healthcare, and you wont be any closer to progressive policies because america is trending towards the right wing in aggregate and all you have to show for it is one or two more liberal judges and maybe some legal weed.

 

[RaikouLover]

yeah cuz he's got the famous name and the party + media establishment really like him. i think this is not so much a case of "people like him because his tone is different from trump's" and more one of "people watch cable news and cable news says bernie's a weird old commie and uncle joe is a good old boy (i exaggerate but you get my point)." i doubt that the same people who don't care much about policy care a whole lot about tone either, it's more likely that they vote based on recognizability + biased info presented by the media

it is worth noting btw that he does not have a clear advantage over sanders yet, so hold your horses before saying he ran the table with the rest lol

At some point Sanders supporters will have to accept that there are simply more people in the Democratic party that prefer the party choice than the political revolution that Sanders is offering. It's exceptionally bad political strategy to imply that people who don't like Bernie are "brainwashed" by the media. The latest poll had Biden up nationally by some 16% over Sanders.

re: “establishment,” people dont dislike “estalbishment” in the sense of current government, they dislike neoliberal economically conservative socially liberal when conveniently polled policies. biden is a stooge just like clinton was and just like pete is, a long line of shadow puppets backed by billionaire financiers who dont want health care and pharma reform because it cuts into their profits, or education reforms or military reforms.

what policies does biden have to attract turnout that differs from the apathy of previous generations? sorry but the whole “supreme court” scare tactic vbnmw people have been trying doesnt budge for me, i want something with substance that can affect the daily life of the common american. feel free to sell me on these policies as i am not aware of them, for this reason i think trump is gonna win.

These are literally right wing talking points. Hillary Clinton was the most liberal Presidential Candidate in modern history. She was one of the most liberal Senators in her tenure there.

Policies do not drive turnout. Negative partisanship does. This primary season so far has greater turnout than 2008 and 2016, even with the "uninspiring" field of candidates.

BROKE: biden cannot beat trump

WOKE: even when biden does beat trump the material conditions which elected trump into power are still present and will allow for another trump to replace biden, who is melting before our eyes, in 2024. All that will change is the structure of the supreme court, everything else will remain the same; children will still be locked up, you still wont have healthcare, and you wont be any closer to progressive policies because america is trending towards the right wing in aggregate and all you have to show for it is one or two more liberal judges and maybe some legal weed.

More of the root for Trump if Bernie isn't the nominee. We'll just pretend having a president that accepts science, democracy, unions, health care access, and livable wage is no progress at all.

 

[Myzozoa]

Policies do not drive turnout. Negative partisanship does. This primary season so far has greater turnout than 2008 and 2016, even with the "uninspiring" field of candidates.

ok so suppose this is indeed the case, trump has more negative partisanship towards him than anyone in recent memory, but perhaps you think differently. and if so the dems will win even if they run {insert either primary candidates' name here}. this line of thinking isn't convincing mainly because if the dem candidate is gonna win either way you might as well get some policies out of it beyond the bare minimum. negative partisanship has become a code word for 'since my party is more disliked rn im more likely to lose' and once you realize thats all it is you i would remind you of the historical advantage gained by incumbency, the dems cant try to nebulously skate their way thru this election cycle like 2016, hoping 6% in the polls will save them.

It isn't clear to me how Biden is gonna achieve in the face of negative partisanship since he was the primary deflection for trump during impeachment and he routinely misses his talking points in the manner of a character out of a Veep episode. If what you say about negative partisanship is true, then imo, Sanders would just have to sit there and give his standard talk about medicare education and income inequality and he could walk his way to the presidency with much decorum because the worst thing you can say about the dude is that he doesn't want to bomb ppl in other countries and he wants to make rich ppl pay more taxes.

It's almost like ppl just want to see Biden get the nom so they can watch trump tear him to shreds I rly don't get it tbh.

 

[termi]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-thumb-drives-discovered/ar-BB10SAMK?ocid=st2

how come this keeps happening, over and over again? if this were a latin american country, the elections would have already been widely condemned as illegitimate. for every one of these incidents you have to wonder how many incidents go unaccounted for (and please don't speak of "blunders" because my god, counting votes is not difficult to do right, many countries are perfectly capable of making no mistakes in counting votes so there is no reason as to why every other state has a bunch of "missing" votes)

At some point Sanders supporters will have to accept that there are simply more people in the Democratic party that prefer the party choice than the political revolution that Sanders is offering. It's exceptionally bad political strategy to imply that people who don't like Bernie are "brainwashed" by the media. The latest poll had Biden up nationally by some 16% over Sanders.

didnt say "brainwashed," maybe stop making inferences. however, if you deny that
a: cable news is a primary source of political information for many
b: news networks are companies with private interests that shape what they report and how they report, and
c: it is in their vested interest not to have a sanders presidency
u are either woefully uninformed or willfully ignorant. people's opinions are largely shaped by the media consume, and these media are not politically neutral. this should be old news

 

[Machoke]

Kamala Harris endorses Joe Biden. After railing on him for working w segregationist and being against bussing a la "that little girl was me" and after copying off of Sander's plan and pretending to be on board with m4a. Lol

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I just want to pipe in on one point I’ve seen made frequently: Joe Biden is not senile. He is perfectly mentally capable. His long history of verbal missteps and gaffes can be traced back years, and is likely a symptom related to the fact he has a stutter.

He is indeed a gaffe machine (which is what made him a "relatable", charismatic politician in the past) but to say there hasn't been a mental decline is insane. In 2008 he made a few headline worthy misspeaks that he could recover from right away. This year he barely manages to get a sentence out. In a head to head debate with trump, biden will simply get steamrolled