CAP 11 CAP 11 - Concept Assessment 1

[Thunderbuckets]

The problem with your model is that your example of Gyarados + Jolteon is only really viable because of Gyarados' excellent typing which leaves only one big weakness to exploit. Pretty much anyone that wants to take down Gyarados is going to have to be using an electric attack, which makes Jolteon an incredibly reliable switch-in.

Your proposition of Empoleon would not be viable in the same sense, since it only has three regular x2 vulnerablilities to exploit, which means that in order to work in your pivot/breaker model, CAP11 would need to be able to safely switch-in to and deal with all three of Electric, Fighting and Ground. A better example for the model you're describing would be someone like Swampert, who has excellent defensive typing all around, except for one glaring weakness to Grass. A teammate who could work around that Grass immunity would be able to pull off the same kind of synergy you're talking about.

 

[Deck Knight]

The problem with your model is that your example of Gyarados + Jolteon is only really viable because of Gyarados' excellent typing which leaves only one big weakness to exploit. Pretty much anyone that wants to take down Gyarados is going to have to be using an electric attack, which makes Jolteon an incredibly reliable switch-in.

Your proposition of Empoleon would not be viable in the same sense, since it only has three regular x2 vulnerablilities to exploit, which means that in order to work in your pivot/breaker model, CAP11 would need to be able to safely switch-in to and deal with all three of Electric, Fighting and Ground. A better example for the model you're describing would be someone like Swampert, who has excellent defensive typing all around, except for one glaring weakness to Grass. A teammate who could work around that Grass immunity would be able to pull off the same kind of synergy you're talking about.

Stone Edge mauls both Gyarados and Jolteon pretty good. An offensive core needs not cover all of its weaknesses, it just needs to be threatening to most of the things that can waylay it, and Gyarados' STAB Waterfall keeps most of the users of Stone Edge at bay. The only two I really see being a problem are Electric and Ground, and the most common electric move is Thunderbolt. Since Empoleon works in Sandstorm you could have something like Cradily or Tyranitar come in to eat the Thunderbolt, you'd just need to devise a way around Earthquake. Levitate or Magnet Rise could do that, although It'd be tough because Magnet Rise requires you to use it after a switch, but regardless it's hardly impossible. A more defensive Armaldo could handle both pretty well and, indeed, be nuetral to Fighting to boot while maintaining an offensive threat.

 

[familyguyman]

Empoleon can guarantee a win if Blissey and Vaporeon are dead and, depending on the moveset, Dragons or Bulky Waters are softened up and your opponent has no Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave. It's not that hard to do really, but it requires a meticulously constructed team revolving around entry hazards and shuffling.

Offensively speaking, a compliment to let Empoleon pull off his signature sweep would be a good direction.

Defensively, Empoleon's unique typing lends itself to resist strong coverage combos (Water/Dragon, Water/Normal, Water/Flying, Water/Poison). However, I feel defensive compliments exist (Gliscor, Rotom-A, etc) which makes it less interesting than the offensive direction.



Togekiss is also a cool idea because it can warrant an equally cool, robust CAP to compliment Togekiss' diversity. I would especially like it if we made another Hax abuser hahaha.

 

[Scoopapa]

I don't think I'm intimately familiar with OU enough to come up with an awesome candidate here, but I have used offensive synergies in other tiers, so I'm just going to comment on what seems to make those work.

It's relatively obvious that a pokemon providing offensive synergy to another should be able to handle the threats that stop it's partner. However, I think that ideally such a partner should actually be similar enough that it can attract and weaken it's partner's counters, as well. This would give it elements of the "double x" strategy, while also allowing for coverage on a wide variety of threats - basically the best of both worlds. Another idea would be to use a sweeper that outspeeds everything that isn't extremely frail, and partner it with something that has powerful priority to wipe that stuff out (or visa versa).

For instance, in UU I used a combo of Tauros and Arcanine; Arcanine could take out some of the most troublesome stuff that walls Tauros (Spiritomb, bulky Grasses) and could wipe out just about anything past base 110 speed with Extremespeed. At the same time, both are similar, being fast, powerful all-out Life Orb attackers. Arcanine also turned troublesome Will-o-Wisps into a boost. While I don't exactly switch back and forth between them constantly (like you might with Defensive combos), the two definitely form the "spear" of a nicely balanced team. They don't actually cover everything I might run into, but they can clear holes for each other while still being different enough to take advantage of a wide varienty of holes (k that sounds weird) that the rest of my team might create.

Just some food for thought as far as the type of offensive combos we might try to create. Of course while Fuzznip has recommended offensive combinations, it would be great if we came up with pokemon that are capable of performing both offensively and defensively, so that we don't predetermine the type of team CAP 11 will be appearing on.

 

[jumpluff]

While the hyper offense concept of 'double Dragon' (not necessarily Dragons, it just comes from Dragon Dancing and Dragon-types, because overloading them both can wear down their shared counters and make an assault that's too much for certain teams to handle) is definitely viable in OU, I think it would be less interesting than creating a different Pokémon to patch up existing problems. The strategy is also quite exploitable. It's certainly a possibility, but just doubling up on what we already have is, in my opinion, less interesting than identifying the problems of an existing Pokémon and attempting to fix them. It's a type of synergy, yes, but one that doesn't really yield as much deep exploration as other types of offensive synergy can. I also think we're more likely to end up with a stand-alone alternative CAP to an existing Pokémon than something that works best in tandem with the Pokémon we choose.

ETA: Another point is that it works best with already-great Pokémon like Tyranitar. The idea here, and one that Fuzznip laid out in the OP, is make a good, lower-OU Pokémon more usable through creating a synergistic partner. That's one of the reasons I'm so much in favour of Togekiss; despite its problems, as someone who has used and tried to use it, I think its major problem is that it doesn't fit neatly into teams. Creating a partner for it would help this a lot. By alleviating its problems, we can bring out its good aspects.

 

[Scoopapa]

@ Jumpluff: I think my concept is a lot more sophisticated than "double dragon". I am certainly not suggesting that we make a quasi-clone of something; you're right that such a strategy really only works with truly overwhelming pokemon, such as the dragons. I was just saying that the pokemon should be similar enough that they can attract and weaken many similar counters - otherwise, your "partnership" isn't really getting past, say, two different walls, without outside offensive support. I'm not saying that's a problem competitively, but it weakens the goal of this concept.

You said to avoid using "double dragon" in favor of "creating a different Pokémon to patch up existing problems", but it seems that you missed the point of my post, which was that an ideal offensive comination can actually do both. Maybe this needs clarifying, but the offensive combo I mentioned doesn't simply throw itself relentlessly at the enemy. Both are capable of doing damage over the course of multiple switch-ins (Arcanine has recovery, Tauros Intimidate), so what I am describing is definitely not hyper offense. I wasn't lying when I said it was a balanced team.

 

[jumpluff]

Ah, okay, sorry. I didn't mean that your combination was hyper offensive, just that the concept is usually associated with hyper offense, where it shines. I don't think currently there's much of this in OU, but an example might be Tyranitar/Metagross (Tyranitar deals with Rotom to an extent, but they share counters like Swampert and have to beat them down with sheer power / outside support, yet have key differences). You do have a point, though; there are definitely more ways to facilitate offensive synergy than typing. I definitely hope that we keep this in mind.

 

[Chomz]

Just glancing through this thread, I see a bit of a problem: most of the proposals put up so far are for Pokemon that are far behind in usage for a simple reason: they are simply outclassed by better options.

One example that's particularly clear for me would be Heracross; it's not being neglected because of any real fault in its stats or typing or movepool, all of which are very viable. It's being neglected because of Lucario, a similar sweeper which is faster, more versatile, and generally better in 'most all regards. What's the point, then, of creating a Pokemon that helps an underused Poke become more powerful if another Poke exists that is already as powerful, or even more so without assistance?

 

[TubaKing]

I support toshimelonhead's nomination of Togekiss, based on the fact that Togekiss is very versatile, highly underrated Pokemon; if this CAP is its partner, we can take it in a variety of different directions:

1. Conventional partner, able to switch in on Togekiss' weaknesses, and vice-versa.

2. A Pokemon that either provides paralysis for Togekiss, allowing Togekiss to focus on using Nasty Plot, etc., or a Pokemon that capitalizes on paralysis provided by Togekiss.

3. A strong recipient for Baton Passed Nasty Plots; currently Swords Dance is far more popular to Baton Pass, due to the lack of good NP recipients by comparison.

Another factor that would be nice (though obviously not pivotal) regarding Togekiss is that Togekiss is actually very viable in full CAP, meaning the partnership would not need to end when playtesting does.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
The consensus in this thread seems to be leaning towards Togekiss as the best option for the CAP 11 partner.

 

[SJCrew]

One example that's particularly clear for me would be Heracross; it's not being neglected because of any real fault in its stats or typing or movepool, all of which are very viable. It's being neglected because of Lucario, a similar sweeper which is faster, more versatile, and generally better in 'most all regards. What's the point, then, of creating a Pokemon that helps an underused Poke become more powerful if another Poke exists that is already as powerful, or even more so without assistance?

Yeah, except Heracross isn't a sweeper at all, so it can actually fit quite nicely alongside Lucario on a focused team. Heracross breaks Lucario's counters, Lucario takes advantage of that with a subsequent sweep. Heracross is a standard OU powerhouse, and part of the reason it's not used so much is because of the metagame shift; Machamp, Lucario, and Infernape's roles are in much higher demand, and thus usurping Heracross's position as a compulsory Fighting type on offensive teams.

I don't know, should we really make this concept's focus of support so specific? What's this going to succeed in doing other than increase Togekiss's usage and make it more of a bitch to defeat? I don't see the point in having it just support and benefit one Pokemon.

Also, how will it function as a standalone? What if Togekiss doesn't fit on my team? Does I really need a compulsory member just to make this Pokemon useful? What's the use in having a Pokemon that only exists to amplify the effectiveness of another? We should really start focusing on the "why" before we get to the "what" or "how".

 

[Azule]

Yeah, except Heracross isn't a sweeper at all, so it can actually fit quite nicely alongside Lucario on a focused team. Heracross breaks Lucario's counters, Lucario takes advantage of that with a subsequent sweep. Heracross is a standard OU powerhouse, and part of the reason it's not used so much is because of the metagame shift; Machamp, Lucario, and Infernape's roles are in much higher demand, and thus usurping Heracross's position as a compulsory Fighting type on offensive teams.

I don't know, should we really make this concept's focus of support so specific? What's this going to succeed in doing other than increase Togekiss's usage and make it more of a bitch to defeat? I don't see the point in having it just support and benefit one Pokemon.

Also, how will it function as a standalone? What if Togekiss doesn't fit on my team? Does I really need a compulsory member just to make this Pokemon useful? What's the use in having a Pokemon that only exists to amplify the effectiveness of another? We should really start focusing on the "why" before we get to the "what" or "how".

To follow up on this point which I agree on, look at the CeleTran combo. Both of them have a niche on the team, and work pretty well with or without the other being there. If we pick a Pokemon which is very narrow to go down, there's a risk of this CAP becoming dead weight on a team without our partner Pokemon

 

[ssbbm]

The question I have is this: Will the CAP be usable by itself, or will it be weak without its "Perfect Mate"?

 

[NARFNra]

Personally, I assumed we'd make a pokemon that's mid or low OU(e.g. Aero, Togekiss, Zone, Tenta) without the partner, but rises to top OU with one.

 

[Azule]

Using CeleTran combo again, to quote the useage numbers:

25| Celebi | 82169 | 8.22 |
2 | Heatran | 224594 | 22.48 |

And Celebi's number one partner is Heatran.

| Celebi | 1. Heatran | 33218 | 40.43 |

Doesn't this mean that our Partner should be a powerful Pokemon alone, but goes an even better job when paired with said Pokemon, considering our Pokemon is lower OU?

To take Gyra-Jolt as another example:

| 21 | Jolteon | 90814 | 9.09 |
| 5 | Gyarados | 177251 | 17.74 |

| Gyarados | 9. Jolteon | 28787 | 16.24 | 9 |

Gyarados is the Higher tier Pokemon who is aiding the lower tier, again. If we make our two Pokemon "too" lower tier, then using them wouldn't be as effective as a different combo.

 

[Anachronism]

One problem I have with Togekiss is that it isn't really good for countering much despite the defenses it has. This aspect really limits the defensive partnerships it can make. It also tends to be checked indirectly for most teams rather than with a specific counter (unless they are using zapdos or blissey.)

Right now I am liking Weavile more because the purpose of the partner seems much more tangible.

 

[bubbly]

Togekiss can counter a lot of stuff, actually, since almost nothing can OHKO it and between its hax Air Slash, Aura Sphere, TWave, and other options (even Hustle Extreme Speed, though thats barely an option), it can easily kill off other stuff. Its actually a pretty threatening pokemon which you can't give too many free turns.

 

[jumpluff]

One problem I have with Togekiss is that it isn't really good for countering much despite the defenses it has. This aspect really limits the defensive partnerships it can make. It also tends to be checked indirectly for most teams rather than with a specific counter (unless they are using zapdos or blissey.)

Right now I am liking Weavile more because the purpose of the partner seems much more tangible.

That's why we should use it offensively. Togekiss might not be a good counter, but with the right partner to make its typing less bad, it can definitely be a good attacker. I -- and I'm sure others do too -- personally would rather make an offensive pair with acceptable defensive synergy. Also, Blissey is a check, yeah, but it can be stopped cold by anti-stall Heal Bell Nasty Plot sets. There, its real problem is Rotom-A.

 

[Sextus scion of crazy]

Heracross. while it seems to have been replaced by Lucario, Heracross still has guts and STAB bug moves to differentiate it. The perfect mate for it would be more defensive and would be able to counter the faster flying, psychic, and ghost types that hurt Heracross.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Right, time for another post. I haven't been able to post this yet since the forums were down this morning (I think). It doesn' have as much information or explanation as my previous post, it is more an explanation of the thought process that goes into my decision. So, here we go. These Pokemon are in OU or BL:

Aerodactyl
Azelf 
Blissey 
Breloom
[COLOR=black]Bronzong[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Celebi [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Dragonite [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Dusknoir [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Electivire [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Empoleon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Flygon[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Forretress[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gengar [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gliscor [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gyarados[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Heatran[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Heracross[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Hippowdon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Infernape [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Jirachi [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Jolteon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Kingdra [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Lucario [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Machamp[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Magnezone[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Mamoswine [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Metagross [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Ninjask[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Roserade[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Salamence [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Scizor [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Skarmory[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Smeargle [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Snorlax [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Suicune [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Swampert [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Tentacruel[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Togekiss [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Tyranitar[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Umbreon[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Vaporeon[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Weavile [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Zapdos[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black]Abomasnow[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Cresselia[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Crobat[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Froslass [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gallade [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Honchkrow [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]PorygonZ[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Raikou [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Shaymin [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Staraptor [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Yanmega [/COLOR]

Next, we remove some Pokemon. Specifically, those in the top ten or so of usage, those lower down who have the same or similar type as higher-ranked Pokemon, those who have too generic a typing to be of consequence (ie. Easily partnered with others regardless, little scope for achievement), and Celebi, as that has already been done, as shown below:

Aerodactyl
Breloom
[COLOR=black]Empoleon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gliscor [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Heracross[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Jolteon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Kingdra [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Lucario[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Magnezone[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Mamoswine [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Roserade [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Skarmory[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Suicune [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Swampert [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Tentacruel[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Togekiss[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Weavile [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Zapdos[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black]Abomasnow[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Crobat[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Froslass [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gallade [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Honchkrow[/COLOR]

This has shortened the list significantly, as you can see. Now, I will crop the list further. In essence, now we are progressing to stages that some/most of you may not agree with in weeding out potential partners. Now, I am going to take out those Pokemon that cannot fulfil, to my mind, the essence of what I talked about in my previous post – the ability to support the partner defensively, offensively, and indirectly, to some capacity. See my last post for details.

Breloom
[COLOR=black]Empoleon [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Heracross[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Magnezone[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Mamoswine [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Roserade [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Swampert [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Togekiss[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Zapdos[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Abomasnow[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Crobat[/COLOR]

Thus, here is my final probationary list. The above Pokemon are those that, I feel, would be able to compliment a partner in standard OU most effectively, work in powerful and, crucially, exclusive cohesion with them, where they are recognised as being very good partners. For a more in-depth look:

Breloom: Not bad. Horrible frailty is the main turn-off, as it is nailed even by NVE moves. Poison Heal helps somewhat, as well as making a status buffer for the partnership, but aside from that I would be worried.

Empoleon: I’d be inclined to support Deck Knight on this one. It has good bulk, reasonable offensive stats and a support inclination. In short, it is pretty much perfect. My only niggling worry would be that Water and Steel are two prominent types in OU regardless, so our Perfect Mate may well find some relationship issues if he attracts too many hangers-on, given the popularity of both types regardless.

Heracross: A bit like Breloom but without Poison Heal. I love Heracross, but for the good of the project I honestly have to say he’s an inferior Breloom, not in terms of actual ability, but how well he can potentially partner up.

Magnezone: Again a Steel-type, so good resistances coupled with good defences. Another great option beside Empoleon, but slightly lower perhaps because Magnezone already has pretty good partners in Salamence and other Scizor-fearing Pokemon, which marks him out already as a niche partner, which we don’t really want.

Mamoswine: He is one of my favourites, but still not really good enough. Good defensive stats, high offensive stats, and capacity to be a very good teammate. The one problem I can see is Scizor, and unfortunately that’s one very big problem. As I don’t really want to have to push into this, I have to advise against it, although I would dearly love to see him in there. More than that horrible Weavile anyway.

Roserade: Ehh… pretty frail in OU, and I’m not terribly keen on its offensive ability either. It’s a bit like Weavile in a way – it doesn’t necessarily function better just because of teammates. I can’t really see Roserade forming a good partnership in OU, as there it is more or less restricted to Spiking, unlike in UU where it had a good defensive typing and was able to seriously threaten.

Swampert: One weakness and not many resistances makes this a bit of a poor cohesive tool in my opinion, and low offensive stats don’t help either.

Togekiss: Hmm… reliable recovery is nice, but it isn’t terribly versatile. It can sweep, support or annoy the living crap out of you, but it doesn’t seem a very good partner. A little bit too niche. Still, it seems fine from where I’m standing, it ticks all the boxes, it’s versatile, and it makes for a good partner in all respects. I’m concerned from a personal standpoint that Togekiss might just be a little bit too… low down to make the partnership reliable. Similarities to other Flying-types don’t help either.

Zapdos: THIS ONE PICK THIS ONE yeah in all seriousness, if it weren’t for Fuzznip’s post beforehand I would be advocating this guy over anybody else. A good typing, weaknesses can be worked around WITH a partner, can go defensive, offensive, or support-wise depending on wishes and excels in all categories. Good STAB for offensive, reliable recovery for defensive, and a good support movepool for the latter. As it stands, however, I very much doubt that he will get much support from the community for the simple reason that he already excels in this Scizor and Lucario filled metagame, and as such does not particularly “need” this valuable partner. Ergo, there is much less initiative to make a partnership, when Zapdos is already blessed by a good lot in the metagame, as per Fuzznip’s reply to my original post.

Abomasnow: No more hail. Please.

Crobat: Well… better than Weavile. Lack of really potent offence and generally mediocre everywhere besides Speed… I can’t really see this working too well.

So, in short summary, I would be more inclined to support Zapdos, Empoleon, Togekiss, Mamoswine, and Roserade for consideration as the most likely partners for CAP11 (in descending order). I feel that these exhibit the correct balance of powerful offence, balanced defence, and support capacity to be considered the very best partners, insofar as they can give to their partner and receive at the same time: a symbiotic relationship, which is absolutely crucial to CAP11's success. I firmly believe that any one of these could result in an excellent CAP, and that these are the best choices on which to build the foundations of a "Perfect Mate".

Oh, and one more thing – please no Weavile. It really is a terrible option. It yields literally no benefit for its partner (revenge killing a Salamence is not teamwork in the slightest) and CAP11 would have to bend over backwards to make Weavile its legitimate partner. At which point it would be better off with other partners. And even if we went the other way and made it reliant on Weavile to succeed (Pursuit-trap etc.) this would only mean that CAP11 ended up underused as well. It just isn’t going to work. You may all say that finding out exactly how to make the little pink weasel actually usable would be interesting, and I’m inclined to agree. But I also want this CAP to be successful, and at the end of the day I feel sure nobody is going to be using something so good to help what it was originally designed for, especially if Weavile needs the sort of support that I have an inkling it does.

On another note: to my mind, the Team Options section for CAP11’s analysis will be very short indeed.

STET: I just noticed that I could not find a nomination post for Zapdos anywhere. Though I am want to do it, I feel I have to at least plead his case to a certain extent, although I doubt very much whether this appeals to the community consensus.

Pokemon Name: Zapdos

Why this Pokemon: Zapdos is quite extraordinary in many ways. It is an excellent offensive threat, with a powerful STAB Thunderbolt and a useful offensive movepool. It is very good defensively as well, boasting immunity to Earthquake and a generally good defensive typing, as well as reliable recovery in the form of Roost. It is also good on the support front to a certain extent, as besides the obvious, it is one of the best Scizor checks in the game, and can also check Lucario. It is an immensely flexible Pokemon, and can be adapted to suit any role, something which is crucial in a teammate. Rather than appealing from the standpoint that it is ill-used for one reason or another, as has been the case, and wailing about how it is misunderstood and has boatloads of weaknesses and needs help desperately, I would like to state that Zapdos is a good choice as CAP11's partner simply because of its raw power when used alongside other Pokemon rather than individually. It is an excellent teammate, and though you may say that it already has useful partners, it cannot be said that Zapdos has anything close to a "Perfect Mate" in the game. Because Zapdos is so reliable, I would have to impress explicitly, not only its viability in this metagame, which is already so strong, but also the capacity it has for actually performing well, which cannot be said for some certain other Pokemon that have been brought up.

What are the possibilities: Zapdos, first and foremost, is weak to Rock and Ice, and resists Grass, Fighting, Flying, Bug, Ground, and Steel. Its primary counters are notably Blissey, Snorlax, Swampert, and Tyranitar. Thus it would seem that viable types to mention would be Steel (resistance to Ice and Rock, Zapdos takes Fighting/Ground moves) while the secondary typing would be something to enable it to take on Swampert and Tyranitar (debate needed), as well as a medium-power Fighting-type move such as Low Kick, while at the same time making it abhorrent to other, similar Pokemon such as Salamence (ie, something like making it unable to deal properly with Steel-types such as Bronzong or Scizor). But this is getting way ahead of what I would like to specifically mention here, and that is the absolute flexibility of such a combination in place. The ability of both to determine the role they will play in the heat of battle, not before, marks them both out as strong supporters, and the ability to strike and support one another as a powerful offensive core, or else ward off the opponent through resistances. The difference between this and other Pokemon such as Yanmega, is that I can indeed see this working, where for other Pokemon I could not.

That being said, I've no serious problems with any of the Pokemon I listed above. This should be fun.

 

[The Pokemon Pimp]

I think out of most of these Pokemon, we can eliminate ones that are typically seen as leads, like Roserade or Aerodactyl. My reason for this is that they are used almost exclusively in the front position and don't need as much team chemistry as one in the core of the team.

On the other hand, the Pokemon commonly used as leads can provide incentive to make these Pokemon viable in a non-lead position. What do you all think about these exclusive lead Pokemon?

Empoleon is a good candidate to match with a perfect mate. Its unique typing and stat spread allow it to mold with a potential mate and function well. It wouldn't fall into the Gyarados/Jolteon or Electivire category (meaning, another Pokemon can use it as a mate as well). I am staying with my nomination of Togekiss, as I stated previously, but Empoleon fits into the same mold as Togekiss in terms of having more potential than other low-OU or BL Pokemon.

 

[smallvizier]

Empoleon: [...] My only niggling worry would be that Water and Steel are two prominent types in OU regardless, so our Perfect Mate may well find some relationship issues if he attracts too many hangers-on, given the popularity of both types regardless.

It doesn't matter if our CaP helps all waters and steels a bit, as long as it helps our target more. Really if this CaP is sensible then it will only be appearing with its mate about half the time anyway (or less)... it does need to be able to work with some other pokemon, fulfil its own roles and fight alongside other partners.

In other words I don't think it's worth worrying about helping 'all the other' water or steel pokemon. Empoleon would be the only one which was water and steel, and whose moveset meshed perfectly with the CaP.

 

[Raj]

I'm very keen on Honchkrow. It has the power and ability to tear hoes in teams. I've been using it for the last few weeks on all my CaP teams. It just needs a booster-Mon (Perfect mate) to really make it shine.

 

[ATray]

I am absolutely 100% for Empoleon, but if Fuzznip is seriously considering Togekiss and Weavile, Togekiss would be better.

 

[kd24]

i have to fully support togekiss, not only does it have the perfect balance of stats to make this work (bulky enough to help the other pokemon, strong enough to be a powerful attacker) but togekiss is a pokemon that has so many counters that could be taken out with the right kind of pokemon - think of how close collosoil comes to being that perfect mate - unfortunately both suffer weaknesses (krillowatt, general ice) and collosoil basically doesn't need togekiss at all. in my eyes, togekiss perfect mate is a very good pokemon that gives perfect synergy with togekiss and works together with her to take out the opponent - this isn't just sweeping with one pokemon, we could just do that with a support mon. this is about supporting the whole team through 2 pokemon that have the stats and ability to work perfectly - something frail pokemon can't do.

 

[Azule]

Empoleon is already good enough as it is,its already capable of sweeping teams if given that crucial turn of setup. I'd go against that, but possibly support Honchkrow like mentioned above.