CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10 (Movepool Discussion)

[eric the espeon]

my reasoning for Monster>Ground is mosy due to the people

Plant 10
Monster 8
Ground 4
Dragon 2

is what i have seen so far, however i do think Monster does not fit now that i think about it.

 

[X-Act]

Well, do whatever you like. I was just surprised that what I considered as 'common sense' seems to be weird to other people.

That said, the 'HumanShape' breeding group also makes more sense than the 'Monster' group... and maybe more than the 'Ground' group I suggested. There are two Fire-types in the HumanShape breeding group after all...

I'm again surprised that nobody has mentioned HumanShape at all until now.

 

[eric the espeon]

hmm I now support Plant/HumanShape, its not really a monster.

 

[TerrickTerran]

Plant and Humanshape work for me.

 

[Mekkah]

I really don't care much for Egg Group. I think it's better to determine what needs to come from Egg Moves first, and then which groups suits that the best.

 

[X-Act]

About Aromatherapy, I don't think it fits this Pokemon.

 

[eric the espeon]

TM/HM list

A list of possible learn able TM/HMs.
Bold is debatable for balance.
Italic is debatable for flavour.

Remember this thing has 70 base attack and 95 base Sp. attack, but great defences.

Tm's/HM's:
TM 04-Calm Mind
TM 05-Roar
TM 06-Toxic
TM 08-Bulk Up
TM 09-Bullet Seed
TM 10-Hidden Power
TM 11-Sunny Day
TM 15-Hyper Beam
TM 17-Protect
TM 19-Giga Drain
TM 21-Frustration
TM 23-Iron Tail
TM 27-Return
TM 28-Dig
TM 30-Shadow Ball kinda fits but not very
TM 31-Brick Break: only 75 base power, lets it do something to Blissey. It also lets it take on Heatran if you invest a lot in attack.
TM 32-Double Team
TM 34-Shock Wave stops flying Pokemon and does not fit that well, thinking of removeing.
TM 35-Flamethrower
TM 36-Sludge Bomb
TM 38-Fire Blast
TM 39-Rock Tomb
TM 40-Aerial Ace (Tyranitar gets it, come on)
TM 42-Façade
TM 43-Secret Power
TM 44-Rest
TM 45-Attract
TM 50-Overheat
TM 52-Focus Blast lets Growth-Woodman fight Blissey/Tran, it fits well from a flavour perspective though.
TM 53-Energy Ball
TM 56-Fling
TM 57-Charge Beam
TM 58-Endure
TM 61-Will-o-Wisp mmm... this would stop TTar in its tracks and make any Phy. counter useless IMO not a good idea.
TM 66-Payback
TM 68-Giga Impact
TM 75-Sword Dance hmm with a decent movepool SD could work well, maybe too well.
TM 76-Stealth Rock
TM 80-Rock Slide a worse SE.
TM 82-Sleep Talk
TM 83-Natural Gift
TM 84-Poison Jab
TM 86-Grass Knot
TM 87-Swagger
TM 89-U-Turn
TM 90-Substitute
TM 91-Flash Cannon

HM 04-Strength
HM 06-Rock Smash
HM 08-Rock Climb

TMs we may need to vote on IMO:
W-o-W
Sword Dance
Rock Attack (SE/RS)
Fighting attack (BB/DP)

 

[latinoheat]

fighting attack stops heatran as well, one of its other counters

 

[eric the espeon]

fighting attack stops heatran as well, one of its other counters

mmk adding that it stops other counters.

 

[Bluekikatana]

I always thought the community called it woodman for short, but suggesting that it's actually more related to a human type Pokemon like Mr mime is very off IMO. I mean it's a dinosaur, in armor. It has its eyes to the side of its head, a long jaw full of carnivorous teeth, it has feathers on its head, it has a tail, scales. It's most likely cold blooded, but like Venusaur and Sceptile, they're both monster.

The only thing remotely human about it, is its intelligence enough to create its own armor made of wood, but Lapras is intelligent enough to understand human speech and well that won't go under human shape I'm sure.

I say monster/plant is the way to go.

 

[Raverist]

Hmm, well, aside from my slight dislike of this frankenstein approach, so long as these pokemon never are spawned in the next gen, then I'm alright with it, and so one will put in my views on those TM moves.

Will-o-Wisp is generally a given on something as tanky as woodman (even though one such as myself will call him Komofern, due in part to the fact that it looks like a lizard and is part grass part fire(fern being plant and -fern- as in in-fern-o)), and with Swords Dance, it just seems kinda natural, depending on whether it's used as TM or possibly level move, but if it's having SD, it doesn't get BU.

As for the rock and fighting moves, Komofern doesn't look like the kinda thing that would pick up a big rock and throw it, so Rock Slide would be more intelligent, and you might as well in that case give it BOTH BB and DP for fighting moves.

Take this thought as someone who does Anime-style battling on SPPf, and that my view of Stone Edge is that the ground is hit to bring a huge sharp stone, which is launched facewards.

 

[eric the espeon]

mmm i can kinda see the argument for monster... I dunno really.

LOL at

my view of Stone Edge is that the ground is hit to bring a huge sharp stone, which is launched facewards.

anyway I don't think it needs W-o-W its more bulky than Skarm so it does not need the extra boost.

 

[Nokocchi]

No Swords Dance, please. Last I remember, this was supposed to be Specially inclined, yet all I see is most;y Physcally-oriented moves.

How about these:
-Shock Wave(TM): Odd choice, but if Tangela can get it, why not Woodman?
-Shadow Ball(TM): Budew Line can get this, so I don;t see what's wrong with giving it this
-Ancientpower(EGG): Exeggutor, Tangela, and Meganium can get it, so it should too.
-Confusion(EGG): It's a Jumpluff and Tangela Egg Move, too.
-Focus Blast(TM): Alot of oddballs get this move, including ones like Scaptile anf Tangrowth.

I know I'm basing all on the fact that other Grassers can get these moves, especially the Tangela Line XD

Plus it does need worthless Egg Moves. Splash Kingdra anyone? Barrier Cloyster(Already gets Iron Defense)? Grasswhistle Venusaur(Sleep Powder)?

anyway I don't think it needs W-o-W its more bulky than Skarm so it does not need the extra boost.

Is there even a Fire Type that doesn't get WoW?

 

[eric the espeon]

Adding Shadow Ball in italic, Focus Blast in bold and Shock Wave in both.

BTW awesome Avatar

 

[X-Act]

A list of possible learn able TM/HMs.
Bold is debatable for balance.
Italic is debatable for flavour.

Remember this thing has 70 base attack and 95 base Sp. attack, but great defenses.

Tm's/HM's:
TM 05-Roar
TM 06-Toxic
TM 09-Bullet Seed
TM 10-Hidden Power
TM 11-Sunny Day
TM 15-Hyper Beam
TM 17-Protect
TM 19-Giga Drain
TM 21-Frustration
TM 23-Iron Tail
TM 27-Return
TM 31-Brick Break: only 75 base power, lets it do something to Blissey.
TM 32-Double Team
TM 35-Flamethrower
TM 36-Sludge Bomb
TM 38-Fire Blast
TM 40-Aerial Ace (Tyranitar gets it, come on)
TM 42-Façade
TM 43-Secret Power
TM 44-Rest
TM 45-Attract
TM 50-Overheat
TM 53-Energy Ball
TM 58-Endure
TM 60-Drain Punch weaker then BB but with healing.
TM 61-Will-o-Wisp mmm... this would stop TTar in its tracks and make any Phy. counter useless IMO not a good idea.
TM 68-Giga Impact
TM 71-Stone Edge it kinda fits but removes some possible counters, however off 70 base attack bulky Pokemon will not be too badly hurt.
TM 72-Avalanche (60 or even 120 base power of 70 base attack is not exactly broken)
TM 75-Sword Dance hmm with a decent movepool SD could work well, maybe too well.
TM 76-Stealth Rock
TM 80-Rock Slide a worse SE.
TM 81-X-Scissor
TM 82-Sleep Talk
TM 84-Poison Jab
TM 86-Grass Knot
TM 87-Swagger
TM 89-U-Turn
TM 90-Substitute
TM 91-Flash Cannon

HM 01-Cut
HM 04-Strength
HM 06-Rock Smash
HM 08-Rock Climb

TMs we may need to vote on IMO:
W-o-W
Sword Dance
Rock Attack (SE/RS)
Fighting attack (BB/DP)

I agree with everything you wrote, except the following:

TM23 - Iron Tail: Well, do whatever you like with this actually... its tail does not look too menacing... but then again RAICHU gets Iron Tail.
TM40 - Aerial Ace: Who cares that Tyranitar gets it? Again I don't care either way, but I don't see this thing learn Aerial Ace...
TM60 - Drain Punch: This thing can't punch, as it doesn't even have a fist. Remove.
TM71 - Stone Edge: Definitely remove.
TM72 - Avalanche: No Fire Pokemon learns an Ice move, because... well... it's obvious that a Fire Pokemon cannot ever learn an Ice move! Remove!
TM75 - Swords Dance: Definitely remove. I don't want 524 Attack in one turn on something this bulky, and neither should you.
TM76 - Stealth Rock: I don't like it on this Pokemon, to be honest. :(
TM81 - X-scissor: Why? X-scissor is only learned by Pokemon that have scythes, claws or pincers, and by most Bug-types. This Pokemon has cannons for arms. Remove.
TM84 - Poison Jab: This Pokemon can't jab. Remove.
TM89 - U-turn: I don't see this Pokemon perform a u-turn, but I don't care either way.
HM01 - Cut: With what? See X-scissor.

I'd actually add the following TMs:

TM28 - Dig: It can surely dig. So it should learn it.
TM34 - Shock Wave: Maybe a bit debatable, but I can see this Pokemon perform a shock wave with his cannon-arms.
TM39 - Rock Tomb: Where is it? You suggest Stone Edge and Rock Slide but NOT Rock Tomb? Why?
TM56 - Fling: It can fling objects for sure with those arms, so why not?
TM66 - Payback: Those cannon arms are just the right thing to pay someone back. :)
TM83 - Natural Gift: Why not? I don't know a Pokemon who doesn't get it, and a part-Grass Pokemon must SURELY get it.

As I said before, I suggest that Fighting/Rock moves be limited to Brick Break and Rock Slide.

 

[Bluekikatana]

No Swords Dance, please. Last I remember, this was supposed to be Specially inclined, yet all I see is most;y Physcally-oriented moves.

How about these:
-Shock Wave(TM): Odd choice, but if Tangela can get it, why not Woodman?
-Shadow Ball(TM): Budew Line can get this, so I don;t see what's wrong with giving it this
-Ancientpower(EGG): Exeggutor, Tangela, and Meganium can get it, so it should too.
-Confusion(EGG): It's a Jumpluff and Tangela Egg Move, too.
-Focus Blast(TM): Alot of oddballs get this move, including ones like Scaptile anf Tangrowth.

I know I'm basing all on the fact that other Grassers can get these moves, especially the Tangela Line XD

Plus it does need worthless Egg Moves. Splash Kingdra anyone? Barrier Cloyster(Already gets Iron Defense)? Grasswhistle Venusaur(Sleep Powder)?



Is there even a Fire Type that doesn't get WoW?

Charge beam is more appropriate for an electric move, as is zap cannon.

Shadow ball should be fine.

Ancient power seems suited for dinosaurs, so it works.

Psibeam over confusion, but I still don't think this really needs it.

Focus blast seems logical. I could see it charging one up.

 

[Lord Gloom]

I really don't want Stun Spore on this guy. Just look at it from a flavor perspective: there are only 14 fully evolved Pokemon that get it, and every single one is either main type Grass or Bug. Though this guy does have some foliage, he's mainly just a lizard. Spores are used for reproduction, so why would a Lizardman need them? The only reason the Bug/Flyings get them is because they presumably pollinate plants, and Parasect gets them because he's a mushroom.

Besides all that, there simply isn't a place to store them. He probably has a high core temperature, and it would all just burn up. The only grass moves he should get should be either directly related to his body, related to seeds (certain seeds need fires to germinate!), or something special like Solarbeam that doesn't really relate to anything.

And to Aki: If you're wondering how he got Miracle Eye, I actually have an explanation! Look at this guy; he's obviously a predator of some sort, wouldn't you agree? Well, all things considered, predators generally need very good eyesight. This guy's eyes aren't totally front facing looking at the picture, and considering the mask obscuring his vision, he might as well be blind. I just imagined him using this to overcome this problem and hunt more effectively or somesuch.

 

[Raverist]

There's no fire type that doesn't get WoW, sadly. Why break tradition?

Also, Komofern's Monster/Plant egg group, right? In this case, Leaf Storm could be a possible egg move, or maybe Nasty Plot.

 

[eric the espeon]

I agree with everything you wrote, except the following:

TM23 - Iron Tail: Well, do whatever you like with this actually... its tail does not look too menacing... but then again RAICHU gets Iron Tail.
might as well leave it
TM40 - Aerial Ace: Who cares that Tyranitar gets it? Again I don't care either way, but I don't see this thing learn Aerial Ace...
AA is for agile Pokemon this looks decently agile IMO.
TM60 - Drain Punch: This thing can't punch, as it doesn't even have a fist. Remove.
hmm.. OK
TM71 - Stone Edge: Definitely remove.
Fine
TM72 - Avalanche: No Fire Pokemon learns an Ice move, because... well... it's obvious that a Fire Pokemon cannot ever learn an Ice move! Remove!
good point, removeing
TM75 - Swords Dance: Definitely remove. I don't want 524 Attack in one turn on something this bulky, and neither should you.
no, its an option that people should have a choice over. leaving but it is Bold and Italic.
TM76 - Stealth Rock: I don't like it on this Pokemon, to be honest. :(
So?
TM81 - X-scissor: Why? X-scissor is only learned by Pokemon that have scythes, claws or pincers, and by most Bug-types. This Pokemon has cannons for arms. Remove.
mmmk
TM84 - Poison Jab: This Pokemon can't jab. Remove.
I think it could, leaving for now but italic.
TM89 - U-turn: I don't see this Pokemon perform a u-turn, but I don't care either way.
I reckon it could, leaving for now but italic
HM01 - Cut: With what? See X-scissor.

I'd actually add the following TMs:

TM28 - Dig: It can surely dig. So it should learn it.
I had it before, readding but italic
TM34 - Shock Wave: Maybe a bit debatable, but I can see this Pokemon perform a shock wave with his cannon-arms.
added while you posted
TM39 - Rock Tomb: Where is it? You suggest Stone Edge and Rock Slide but NOT Rock Tomb? Why?
ok
TM56 - Fling: It can fling objects for sure with those arms, so why not?
ok
TM66 - Payback: Those cannon arms are just the right thing to pay someone back. :)
ok
TM83 - Natural Gift: Why not? I don't know a Pokemon who doesn't get it, and a part-Grass Pokemon must SURELY get it.
fine

As I said before, I suggest that Fighting/Rock moves be limited to Brick Break and Rock Slide.

thanks X-Act.

also added Charge Beam but made it Bold.

 

[Raverist]

TM60 - Drain Punch: This thing can't punch, as it doesn't even have a fist. Remove.
hmm.. OK

The fuck? Blissey, Togekiss, Ledian and Vileplume/Bellossom don't exactly have fists either, and they still get DP.

TM81 - X-scissor: Why? X-scissor is only learned by Pokemon that have scythes, claws or pincers, and by most Bug-types. This Pokemon has cannons for arms. Remove.
mmmk

Darkrai says hi, and it has a tail with a sharp leaf on the end of it.

 

[cookie]

From a usage point of view Flash Cannon/Seed Bomb are redundant. Flash Cannon doesn't hit anything SE that Fire/Grass doesn't, and if you're going to go physical with Seed Bomb you'll want a physical fire move as well, so you may as well go with Wood Hammer.

Woodman should maybe get Swords Dance. Base 70 Attack is nothing threatening but nonetheless completely workable with two STAB'ed 120 BP moves with no recoil. It's not even that fast so that it can come in and kick your ass at any given moment. Although Heatran, Salamence and Dragonite wall it to hell, I'm not sure if much else could before dishing out serious damage to Woodman, considering its bulkiness and lack of weaknesses. IMO trial this, because it could turn out like Rhyperior in that it looks really good on paper but in reality you don't get as much use out of it.

Go ahead and give it Charge Beam, I don't see it being used much anyway. Grass Knot does enough to Gyarados and it gets Growth, but put it in for flavour imo.

 

[Nokocchi]

Charge beam is more appropriate for an electric move, as is zap cannon.

I know. I was just rattling out Special moves that other Grassers can get

Shadow ball should be fine.

Good. ^^

Ancient power seems suited for dinosaurs, so it works.

And like I said, Tangela/Exeggcute/Meganium get it, too. It could easily be an Egg Move

Psibeam over confusion, but I still don't think this really needs it.

Like I said, there should be some worthless Egg Moves on it. Confusion fits that. Plus the only Grasser that gets Psybeam is Parasect through Breeding.

Focus blast seems logical. I could see it charging one up.

It seems alot of Pokemon get it, even when it doesn't make much sense.

 

[the_artic_one]

The fuck? Blissey, Togekiss, Ledian and Vileplume/Bellossom don't exactly have fists either, and they still get DP.

All of those have fists (although small ones, if you've ever played smash bros, look at jigglypuff using pound) except togekiss who has fists as togetic.

Darkrai says hi, and it has a tail with a sharp leaf on the end of it.


Generally you need two blades to use X-scissor, those floaty things on darkrai's arms probably count as blades

 

[Nokocchi]

Absol, Leafeon, Seviper, Crobat, and Vespiquen all get X-Scissor.

 

[eric the espeon]

Absol, sharp head thing, a bit odd Leafeon, can make leaves Seviper, uurrm.. Crobat, it has blade like wings and Vespiquen arms all get X-Scissor.