CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10 (Movepool Discussion)

[Lil Ant]

12 was Bullet Seed

the illegal combinations would be

Grasswhistle + Weather Ball
Blaze Kick + Seed Bomb

Blaze Kick + Seed Bomb were the two moves i forgot on the list.

I CAN'T EDIT MY MOVES.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Yeah, SD does seem a bit overbalanced. Good point with Aromatherapy, though, though one also imagines that it could be used akin to burning cannabis and confusing the foe.

Finally someone cracks the lid on a joke that I thought would be hacked to death on this pokemon. When we chose Fire/Grass, I said to myself, "Oh great. This will be an unending stream of marijuana references." To my surprise, it's been left pretty much alone. Congrats, you get the cookie (::) -- (I stole a few from tennisace).

 

[Dane]

I'm 100% against Weather Ball. I don't think some of you realize this, but if it gets Weather Ball, it will become ridiculously powerful. Team it up with a Tyranitar or Hippowdon, and it just got a 100BP Rock attack. Remember how it was supposed to need Hidden Power to get a Rock attack?

So basically, you could run a Choice Specs set with Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Energy Ball, Weather Ball, HP Ice/Ground, and have no real weakness. Or you could run Choice Scarf mixed, with Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, Weather Ball, HP Ice/Ground. Feel free to throw Overheat or Leaf Storm into either set to up burst damage, but lower dps.

Therefore, NO Weather Ball.

 

[Lil Ant]

Doesn't Haze seem like a good bid on this Pokemon, now after i read DJD's post?

 

[tennisace]

Level up Moves:
--Bullet Seed
--Rage
--Absorb
--Defense Curl
--Smokescreen
01. Ember
07. Focus Energy
11. Flame Wheel
16. Iron Head
21. Stun Spore
25. Fire Punch
27. Seed Bomb
33. Flamethrower
40. Leech Seed
45. Flash Cannon
49. Energy Ball
53. Double Edge
57. Grasswhistle
62. Fire Blast
73. Flare Blitz

Egg Moves:
Aromatherapy (Meganium)
Dragon Rush (Dragonite, Garchomp, Charizard, Aggron, Altaria, Salamence, Rhyperior)
Growth (Venusaur, Tropius, Torterra, Abomasnow)
Howl (Exploud)
Leaf Storm (Sceptile, Tropius, Torterra, Venusaur, Meganium)
Rapid Spin (Blastoise)
Mirror Coat (Blastoise)
Synthesis (Venusaur, Meganium, Tropius, Torterra, Sceptile)
Wood Hammer (Torterra, Abomasnow)
Worry Seed (Venusaur, Sceptile, Torterra)
Egg Groups - Monster and Dragon

TM/HM List:
TM5 Roar
TM6 Toxic
TM9 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solarbeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM27 Return
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM34 Shock Wave
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM40 Aerial Ace
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Theif
TM49 Snatch
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM59 Dragon Pulse
TM61 Will-o-Wisp
TM63 Embargo
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM77 Psych Up
TM79 Dark Pulse
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
HM4 Strength
HM5 Defog
HM6 Rock Smash
HM8 Rock Climb

Also, i forget who came up with the idea of the grass 95 power beam attack... ill edit that in. This is basically a few people's movesets and some of mine mushed together.

EDIT: DOUG STOLE MY COOKIES!!!!!!!! its ok. you can have some cookies to give out doug =)
EDIT2: here it is, copied from G_T's post on page one:

Coconut Blaster.
BP: 95
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 10
Special
Effect: High critical ratio.

I like Dane's name better though, even though coconuts being fired through the barrel of a cannon is cool, it would be physical. Chlorophyll Cannon sounds cool.

 

[Lil Ant]

I'm 100% against Weather Ball. I don't think some of you realize this, but if it gets Weather Ball, it will become ridiculously powerful. Team it up with a Tyranitar or Hippowdon, and it just got a 100BP Rock attack. Remember how it was supposed to need Hidden Power to get a Rock attack?

So basically, you could run a Choice Specs set with Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Energy Ball, Weather Ball, HP Ice/Ground, and have no real weakness. Or you could run Choice Scarf mixed, with Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, Weather Ball, HP Ice/Ground. Feel free to throw Overheat or Leaf Storm into either set to up burst damage, but lower dps.

Therefore, NO Weather Ball.

Roflmao

so i guess

Leafstorm
HP Fire
Weather Ball
Sludge Bomb
has no real counters? Well my Roserade has yet to sweep a team so i find that hard, very hard to believe. Which is nearly the same set you call broken.

 

[Dane]

If we end up giving it a custom Grass beam attack... Chlorophyll Cannon.

Roflmao

so i guess

Leafstorm
HP Fire
Weather Ball
Sludge Bomb
has no real counters? Well my Roserade has yet to sweep a team so i find that hard, very hard to believe. Which is nearly the same set you call broken.

Because obviously HP Fire is as powerful as a STAB'd Flamethrower or Fire Blast, and Poison hits things SE that fire doesn't. No wait, that's what Ground or Ice do. Thanks for playing.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Finally someone cracks the lid on a joke that I thought would be hacked to death on this pokemon. When we chose Fire/Grass, I said to myself, "Oh great. This will be an unending stream of marijuana references." To my surprise, it's been left pretty much alone.

Maybe if the winning design had burning marijuana leaves then people would poke fun at it :P. Also...I just came up with a new name for our creature. He will now be refer as "Mariguana"

Mariguana = Marijuana + Iguana.

 

[the_artic_one]

Yeah, SD does seem a bit overbalanced. Good point with Aromatherapy, though, though one also imagines that it could be used akin to burning cannabis and confusing the foe.

Sweet Scent?

 

[Lil Ant]

If we end up giving it a custom Grass beam attack... Chlorophyll Cannon.


Because obviously HP Fire is as powerful as Flamethrower or Fire Blast, and Poison hits things SE that fire doesn't. No wait, that's what Ground or Ice do. Thanks for playing.

HP Fire isn't as powerful as Flamethrower but it 2hko any Steel Type daring to step to it. Name any Steel Type or Grass Type and watch Roserade specs HP Fire 2hko each and everything switching into it. Also Sludge Bomb will also hurt the Dragon switch ins aside Garchomp. It also 2hko Gyarados. So regardless about Super Effective damage, the damage the opposing Pokemon are taking is still equal. You're so welcome for playing.

 

[tennisace]

lol mariguana. if we go with that then the new move has to be called Cannabis Cannon.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I like Dane's name better though, even though coconuts being fired through the barrel of a cannon is cool, it would be physical. Chlorophyll Cannon sounds cool.

They can be energy coconuts. Chlorophyll Cannon sounds weird and is too long of a name, how bout Photo Cannon/Blast? The word Photo could refer to Photosynthesis.

lol mariguana. if we go with that then the new move has to be called Cannabis Cannon.

It's a done deal :P

 

[Dane]

Sludge Bomb BP = 90
STAB'd Sludge Bomb BP = 135

Weather Ball in Sandstorm = 100BP

Let's see... Gyarados takes neutral damage from Sludge Bomb, but is weak to Rock Weather Ball. 200BP > 135.

HP Ice would do 280BP to Dragons, rather than 135.

Flamethrower and Fire Blast aren't even worth comparing to HP Fire due to it's ridiculousness. If HP Fire can 2HKO them, Fire Blast likely OHKOs. If you think that isn't a difference, there's no helping you.

 

[Mekkah]

Roserade also gets bent over a sink and raped if she predicts a switch, it doesn't happen and the opponent packs something powerful (say, Metagross). Woodman, however, survives 2 hits of pretty much everything at least.

 

[Lil Ant]

They can be energy coconuts. Chlorophyll Cannon sounds weird and is too long of a name, how bout Photo Cannon/Blast? The word Photo could refer to Photosynthesis.

Why not use Spirit Bomb, i got the name from DBZ. Goku just used the energy from the Earth and weed is from the Earth. :naughty:

 

[tennisace]

Cannabis Cannon> Spirit Bomb. No question.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Maybe if the winning design had burning marijuana leaves then people would poke fun at it :P. Also...I just came up with a new name for our creature. He will now be refer as "Mariguana"

Mariguana = Marijuana + Iguana.

OMG! I was drinking a soda when I read this, and I spit it all over my desk it made me laugh so hard.

 

[latinoheat]

ive realised that i can no longer take anything lil ant says seriously, aeroblast and fucking dragon dance on the same set.

 

[Lil Ant]

Sludge Bomb BP = 90
STAB'd Sludge Bomb BP = 135

Weather Ball in Sandstorm = 100BP

Let's see... Gyarados takes neutral damage from Sludge Bomb, but is weak to Rock Weather Ball. 200BP > 135.

HP Ice would do 280BP to Dragons, rather than 135.

Flamethrower and Fire Blast aren't even worth comparing to HP Fire due to it's ridiculousness. If HP Fire can 2HKO them, Fire Blast likely OHKOs. If you think that isn't a difference, there's no helping you.

You're talking about Fire Blast dude. The argument is on Weather Ball. Weather Ball seems just fine. Grass Knot on Gyarados is already 180 Base Power. Also, Weather Ball only is good IF you include to use Tyranitar or Hippowdon on your team, no one says you have to. I still don't see how Weather Ball would make it broken. I think we use Special Walls for a reason. Look at Specsmence, hits a lot of things for Super Effective, everything he hits it takes at least nuetral damage. They are also weak to Stealth Rock as well. Which makes you have to predict head on, if you want to try to avoid switching in and out, just because you predicted wrong.

With a ROCK Weather Ball and HP Ice
- Blissey
- Snorlax
- Tentacruel
- Heatran
- Ludicolo
- Probopass
- Umbreon
- Cresselia
- Gardevoir
- Togekiss
- Cradilly
- Kingdra


With a ROCK Weather Ball and HP ground
- Blissey
- Snorlax
- Tentacruel
- Ludicolo
- Probopass
- Umbreon
- Cresslia
- Gardevoir
- Togekiss
- Cradilly
- Kingdra

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

OMG! I was drinking a soda when I read this, and I spit it all over my desk it made me laugh so hard.

Glad to made you laugh :P. I'm so tempted to add that name into the name poll just to see how many actually vote on it.

On a serious note, been looking at all the suggestions on it's movepool so far and I have to say Latinoheat, X-Act, and I think Aki made some decent suggestions. If Latinoheat doesn't mind, I like to place his on the OP so that people have a better template to work off.

 

[Lil Ant]

ive realised that i can no longer take anything lil ant says seriously, aeroblast and fucking dragon dance on the same set.

Aeroblast? that was an accident, but Dragon Dance seems fine to me as well though.

 

[Deucalion2]

Jeez, what are you guys doing? You are all giving Woodman a rediculously good movepool, despite him having excellent defensive stats, and a typing most Pokemon would kill for! All the movepools you give him are also insanely big, with him learning 30 odds moves over 70 levels, etc. I'm going to be realistic and avoid being broken, hopefully, with this:

- Wood Hammer (Heart Scale)
- Flare Blitz (Heart Scale)
1. Leer
1. Growl
1. Pound
5. Bullet Seed (Cannon)
9. Focus Energy
13. Ember (Cannon)
17. Growth
21. Leech Seed (Cannon)
25. Stun Spore
29. Ancient Power (Cannon)
33. Screech
37. Energy Ball (Cannon)
41. Fire Fang
45. Seed Bomb (Cannon)
49. Rage
53. Flamethrower (Cannon)
57. Slam
61. Flash Cannon (Cannon)
65. Will-o-Wisp
68. Hyper Beam (Cannon)

Egg Moves (Plant/Dragon):
Crunch
Mud Sport
Worry Seed
Double Kick
Leaf Storm
Ingrain

The numbers are more Nintendo-ish, and it isn't a broken moveset. Those marked with Cannon I can see him firing from his cannons. Feel free to do a TM list, as I can't be bothered. Please note, my enter button is broken, so I'd be grateful if someone fixed my list.

EDIT by DougJustDoug - The combination of mod privileges and an Enter key are dangerous....

 

[Dane]

You're talking about Fire Blast dude. The argument is on Weather Ball. Weather Ball seems just fine. Grass Knot on Gyarados is already 180 Base Power. Also, Weather Ball only is good IF you include to use Tyranitar or Hippowdon on your team, no one says you have to. I still don't see how Weather Ball would make it broken. I think we use Special Walls for a reason. Look at Specsmence, hits a lot of things for Super Effective, everything he hits it takes at least nuetral damage. They are also weak to Stealth Rock as well. Which makes you have to predict head on, if you want to try to avoid switching in and out, just because you predicted wrong.

So basically you're advocating that Weather Ball is balanced using an ineffective strategy, rather than an effective one? Swords Dance isn't powerful if you don't run physical attacks! See how easy that is?

With a ROCK Weather Ball and HP Ice
- Blissey
- Snorlax
- Tentacruel
- Heatran
- Ludicolo
- Probopass
- Umbreon
- Cresselia
- Gardevoir
- Togekiss
- Cradilly
- Kingdra


With a ROCK Weather Ball and HP ground
- Blissey
- Snorlax
- Tentacruel
- Ludicolo
- Probopass
- Umbreon
- Cresslia
- Gardevoir
- Togekiss
- Cradilly
- Kingdra

Not sure exactly what this list is supposed to be, considering you put Tentacruel who's weak to ground on the ground list and still put Togekiss on both lists.

You have to take Fire Blast/Grass Knot into account because... obviously this guy is going to run them, or even stronger moves.

Come back when you've decided to label your information, rather than just throwing info out there.

 

[Mekkah]

How is Umbreon going to counter this, or rather anything? Use Toxic?

 

[Lil Ant]

So basically you're advocating that Weather Ball is balanced using an ineffective strategy, rather than an effective one? Swords Dance isn't powerful if you don't run physical attacks! See how easy that is?



Not sure exactly what this list is supposed to be, considering you put Tentacruel who's weak to ground on the ground list and still put Togekiss on both lists.

You have to take Fire Blast/Grass Knot into account because... obviously this guy is going to run them, or even stronger moves.

Come back when you've decided to label your information, rather than just throwing info out there.

They were counters man. I mean sheesh you keep adding that Pokemon are weak to this, weak to that. You need to realize just because a Pokemon is weak to something doesn't mean it can't withstand up to it. Notice i put Togekiss in both counters list, yet it is weak to Rock.

Also, the comparison to Swords Dance and Weather ball is rather questioning. For the fact that they are two totally different things. Plus they are being debated on two different things. They don't want a Pokemon this bulky learning Swords Dance. You don't want Weather Ball because it loses most of his counters, even though i don't see it but meh. Swords Dance can continue to boost its attack, while Weather Ball doesn't boost any stats. So that argument you were making is rather irrelevant if you ask me.