CAP 4 CAP 4 - Base Stat Submission Thread

[gengod]

Well i've edited my spread to take the current polls into consideration.

The link to my previous spread is listed below

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1290696&postcount=104

This is what i've come up with.

95 / 76 / 109 / 90 / 80 / 105 = 555



Hp: 95 - My original spread had base 90 HP, but in I needed to make the pokemon more biased towards defense so I started by reaising the HP of the pokemon by 5 points, overall I think its still a rather balanced number for HP allowing it to take a few hits without being overly defensive.

Attack: 76 - I find it more ideal for this pokemon to be specially orientated offensively so I lowered the Physical Attack stat in respect of this. The original spread had base 60 Attack but the polls are saying that pokemon is likely to lean slightly towards Defense and base 76 Attack is the lowest my spread can actually use to shift it's ODB towards defense.

Defence : 109 - I'll repeat exactly what I said in my earlier post here.

This things needs to be able to take a hit or 2 and ground types primarly have higher Physical Defense than Special Defence so it seems pretty ideal as a usable base stat. It also helps with taking hits from the pokemon that it's type makes it ideal to counter like Lucario and Heracross.

The original had base 110 Defence and it was only lowerd by one point to accomodate the limit Doug implemented of a base stat total of 555.

Special Attack: 90 - I had previously given this poke 100 base attack as I believe this pokemon should be Special based as far as offense goes as it adds a unique charateristic to it. (how often do you see a special Ground type) Special attacks also seem to represent the poison type better as well. with base 90 Special Attack it's not going to be sweeping anytime soon, however it wont be simply a pushover in terms of offense.

Special Defense: 80 - I previously had base 90, enabling this pokemon to take some of the weaker Special hits and survive the occasional super effective hit. I had to lower the Special Defense stat to take the polls into consideration, but Base 80 is still quite enough for taking weak to moderate Special hits and ensures this pokemon has a weaker defensive stat that opponents can prey on if they aren't able to take it out due to it's relatively high Physical Defense.

Speed: 105 -As for Speed i'm simply going to quote what I had in my original post as I haven't actually changed that.

Fairly high speed is important but i feel going as fast as 110-140 is as I mentioned unecessary. I settled on 105 as it allows this pokemon to still outspeed the likes of quite a few pokemon like Lucario, Salamence and even Garchomp to quite possibly try and set up some support move or attack them if it chooses.

 

[tennisace]

Nice spread, but there isn't any limit.

EDIT: Claydol is a supporting special Ground Type, just putting it out there.

 

[Captain]

Defence : 109 - I'll repeat exactly what I said in my earlier post here. The original had base 110 Defence and it was only lowerd by one point to accomodate the limit Doug implemented of a base stat total of 555.

There is no BST limit, it was simply a suggestion Doug put out.

 

[Lusantian]

I would like to submit that having something with 140+ Spd and Encore is not going to be gamebreaking. In fact, I'd like to see something with more speed than the 105-115 builds I'm seeing.

Jumpluff is currently the premier Encorer (Alakazam is faster, but he has better things to be doing). Jumpluff currently cannot be guaranteed to outspeed (base 110 and up) the following OU threats: Ninjask, Jolteon, Weavile, Dugtrio, Azelf, Starmie, Syclant, Gengar, and Deoxys-S. I seriously doubt the metagame would become broken if something was added that could Encore Jolteon's Substitute, or Azelf's Nasty Plot. In fact, it might become a "counter" to these pokemon, much like Jumpluff can "counter" Garchomp be Encoring its Swords Dance.

Also, this thing is not necessarily going to be broken with this kind of speed and Swampert's defenses.

269 SpA Ice Beam vs 279 SpD & 404 HP (maximum possible for Swampert's 100 HP/90 SpD) = 32.67% - 38.61%. That's a 98.61% chance of a 3KO, and that's the best case scenario. With no EV support, this turns into a near-sure 2KO (99.41% chance). Obviously in real life it's rarely ever going to be running min/min or max/max, but it will most likely fall somewhere in the 3KO range, which I don't find broken at all. As long as we give it cruddy attacking stats (<70, probably), I don't see a high-speed, "Swamper-defense-like" pokemon as a threat to the metagame as we know it.

</theorymon>

 

[tennisace]

I would like to submit that having something with 140+ Spd and Encore is not going to be gamebreaking. In fact, I'd like to see something with more speed than the 105-115 builds I'm seeing.

Well then submit one yourself. We're not going to hold your hand.

Jumpluff is currently the premier Encorer (Alakazam is faster, but he has better things to be doing). Jumpluff currently cannot be guaranteed to outspeed (base 110 and up) the following OU threats: Ninjask, Jolteon, Weavile, Dugtrio, Azelf, Starmie, Syclant, Gengar, and Deoxys-S. I seriously doubt the metagame would become broken if something was added that could Encore Jolteon's Substitute, or Azelf's Nasty Plot. In fact, it might become a "counter" to these pokemon, much like Jumpluff can "counter" Garchomp be Encoring its Swords Dance.

Those things don't NEED to be countered by this. Jolteon and Ninjask are rarely seen in the CAP metagame, if ever. The rest can be taken down by Bronzong, or even Revenankh, who are both slower than them.

Also, this thing is not necessarily going to be broken with this kind of speed and Swampert's defenses.

269 SpA Ice Beam vs 279 SpD & 404 HP (maximum possible for Swampert's 100 HP/90 SpD) = 32.67% - 38.61%. That's a 98.61% chance of a 3KO, and that's the best case scenario. With no EV support, this turns into a near-sure 2KO (99.41% chance). Obviously in real life it's rarely ever going to be running min/min or max/max, but it will most likely fall somewhere in the 3KO range, which I don't find broken at all. As long as we give it cruddy attacking stats (<70, probably), I don't see a high-speed, "Swamper-defense-like" pokemon as a threat to the metagame as we know it.

You don't? Well lets think here for a minute. Swampert with a support movepool and base 140 speed sure seems broken to me. Your example doesn't lend to your credibility, since not many people run that particular special attack in CAP. Also, you didn't factor in STAB and the 2x weakness. It really is broken if you give it that high speed. Also, its impossible to give it the defenses you want and the speed you want while keeping it within the -5 to -10 range ODB.

 

[Lusantian]

Well then submit one yourself. We're not going to hold your hand.

Touchy :/ I was just voicing opinions, no need to resort to attacking me.

Those things don't NEED to be countered by this. Jolteon and Ninjask are rarely seen in the CAP metagame, if ever. The rest can be taken down by Bronzong, or even Revenankh, who are both slower than them.

The idea was not to create a counter to them. The idea was to show that uber speed + Encore isn't broken. Being able to Encore the OUs that Jumpluff can't won't break this poke.

You don't? Well lets think here for a minute. Swampert with a support movepool and base 140 speed sure seems broken to me.

Oh no it's going to Reflect me to death... Seriously, Encore is the most threatening support move this thing will have. Encore is plenty dangerous, don't get me wrong. It's just that I don't see your point here. (unless I'm missing something, which is quite probable lol)

Your example doesn't lend to your credibility, since not many people run that particular special attack in CAP.

I will admit not having a lot of experience with the CAP server in general. It was the first number that came to mind.

Also, you didn't factor in STAB and the 2x weakness.

OF COURSE I factored in the 2x weakness! I may be dumb, but I sure ain't stupid.

It really is broken if you give it that high speed. Also, its impossible to give it the defenses you want and the speed you want while keeping it within the -5 to -10 range ODB.

Forgot about the ODB. I wasn't "suggesting" Swampert-like defenses, merely suggesting that it wouldn't be broken with them.

If you think I'm being an idiot about the defenses, then ignore that part (it was typed up as an afterthought). The main point of the post was supposed to be about the speed.

 

[darkie]

Touchy :/ I was just voicing opinions, no need to resort no name-calling.

lol what'd he call you?

I really like the way X-Act has been thinking with this. Low HP means a 252/4/252 spread would the most efficient and would make playing with the Poke a lot easier. In addition, I really don't want this to be able to make 101 HP subs, meaning low HP is good in my book.

 

[Lusantian]

lol what'd he call you?

I didn't use the best phrasing; he didn't so much "call me names" as made an uncalled-for attack.

*drops off-topic tangent*

[edit]

This isn't an actual submission, mind you. But it's perfectly possible to get the "correct" ODB with good defenses and high speed (and 545 BST to boot).

 

[Icy Vegeta]

125/70/72/63/70/105



Now for the explainations.

HP. This stat is high, because I think it should have moster HP rather stellar defenses. Also, with this HP, it balances out the defenses enough to make it take some STAB moves.

Attack and Special Attack. These stat is mediocre, because I don't think this should have a lot of fighting power. It should mainly be a utility, which is what we voted for, not a sweeper. I think it should be Physical, more then Special.

Defense and Special Defense. These are lower then most spreads. DON'T BE AFRAID! The high HP makes up for theses mediocre stats. It can still take hits as it needs too. Again, more Physical then Special.

Speed. 105. This ties some Pokemon, but underspeeds some without EV investment and + SPD natures. I wanted this to be decently high, as it seems that extremely high is out of the question.

 

[tennisace]

Now that spread is much better. Balanced defenses, nice speed, and unique. Well done.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Maniac and Gengar's spreads are very unique, though based on the recent poll Maniac might not be accepted. I probably support Gengar or Tennis spread if they're on the poll.

Oh and BTW:

100/80/100/70/95/110 = 555

HP&Def: Same as Celebi and Jirachi's HP/Def stat, and we all know how sturdy those little blighters are. With Max HP/Def, this thing can take hits like a champ, even if it's coming from one of it's weakness. Want some proof?

Adamant BandCross using Megahorn/Close Combat against Max HP/Def CAP4 poke:
Damage: [B]27.97% - 32.92%[/B]
Choice Scarf Version: [B]18.56% - 22.03%[/B]

Stone Edge:
[B]18.56% - 22.03%[/B]
Choice Scarf: [B]12.38% - 14.6%[/B]

Night Slash:
[B]21.78% - 25.74%[/B]
Choice Scarf: [B]14.6% - 17.33%[/B]

As you can see, this baby beats both CB and CS variation of Heracross. This guy would give Hera enough incentive to use Earthquake instead of Night Slash/Pursuit from time to time.

Adamant CB T-tar using Earthquake against max Hp/Def pokey: 
[B]65.35% - 77.23%[/B]

Adamant Dragon Dance'd Life Orb T-tar using EQ:
[B]84.65% - 100%[/B]

See...study. If you want to be technical, Max Speed Poison/Ground would surely Encore DD-tar before it even use EQ, thus allowing it to do what it's made to do, support others.

Adamant CB Mamoswine using Ice Shard:
[B]38.61% - 46.04%[/B]

Stone Edge:
[B]19.06% - 22.52%[/B]

Another Pokemon this guy can handle provided you can switch into either Stone Edge or Ice Shard. The only two moves spell Insta-death to it.

Atk: Decent enough attack strength despite it's function. Strong enough to do a lot of damage towards those weak to it's stabbed attack and/or naturally frail, but is a far cry from sweeping anythings.

Sp. Atk: 70 is the same stat Castform, but have you seen Castform sweep a team? I didn't think so. Mostly be unless with what it will be done.

Sp. Def: The weaker of it's two defenses, but don't be fooled by that. It can take non-stabbed Ice, Ground, and Psychics attack in stride.

No Sp.Atk, Calm Minded Celebi using Psychic:
[B]75.74% - 89.11%[/B]

Can survive a Psychic with little difficulty. Encore Bait if one is using a Max Speed Poison/Ground.

Standard 104 sp.atk Blissey Ice beam
[B]32.18% - 38.12%[/B]

Suck on these nuts, Blissey.

Speed: Allows it to outspeed all forms of Garchomp, Heracross, Lucario (excluding Scarf versions), and anything below 110. The only problem about maxing out speed is that you're less defensive and limits your ability to come into things.

 

[omgthatkid]

I keep trying to make a new spread that conforms well.
So here's another one, similar to my others, but with a bit of tweaking:
101/85/90/60/100/115
I just happen to like the idea of 101 subs and 85 in an attacking stat, coming from a great speed number like 115.
If you want a Special version, then this falls in Slightly Special:
101/60/100/85/83/115
But I doubt the community would vote Special.
Even though we have many STAB EQers, but not so many STAB Earth Powers...
Again, these defenses are bulky but not too bulky.
I think they justify a 50% recovery move...

 

[X-Act]

Long overdue update to my stat spread:

HP: 57
Atk: 75
Def: 125
SpA: 68
SpD: 118
Spe: 107

You know the drill: low HP to maximize defenses just by putting 252 in HP, 107 Spe to outspeed Garchomp and have a few EVs left for Attack. I also left the 'symmetry' there, kinda: 57 (HP) + 11 = 68 (SpA); 68 + 7 = 75 (Atk). 107 (Spe) + 11 = 118 (SpD); 118 + 7 = 125 (Def). Also, HP and Spe end in 7, Atk and Def end in 5, SpA and SpD end in 8... lol.

We also have:

Physical Sweepiness: 117 (Above Average)
Physical Tankiness: 132 (Good)
Special Sweepiness: 106 (Average)
Special Tankiness: 125 (Moderately Good)
ODB: -6.7 (Slight Bias to Defense)
PSB: 7.9 (Slight Bias to Physical)
Overall Rating: 286 (Quite Good)

 

[omgthatkid]

>_<
I feel like I'm spamming this thread with my stat spreads, but I'm just trying to keep them up-to-date with the style biases and such.
100/80/90/65/95/120
Since I don't know how to copy the picture, I'm going to instead copy X-Act and post this:

Physical Sweepiness: 126 Moderately Good
Physical Tankiness: 133 Good
Special Sweepiness: 103 Average
Special Tankiness: 139 Good
Offense/Defense Balance: -5.2 Slight Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Balance: 8.6 Slight Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 335 Very Good
BST: 550

80 is a respectable number for the offensive stat, while not being overwhelming. 100/90/95 is slightly bulkier than Swampert, but common weaknesses, in my opinion, justify the 50% recovery move. 120 is a great speed to be at, allowing it to outspeed many sweepers like Azelf, Starmie, Gengar, and Garchomp.

 

[SoT]

100/80/90/75/90/115


BST = 550

Physical Sweepiness: 125 Moderately Good
Physical Tankiness: 133 Good
Special Sweepiness: 117 Above Average
Special Tankiness: 133 Good
Offense/Defense Balance: -3.3 No Bias
Physical/Special Balance: 3.5 No Bias
Overall Rating: 342 Very Good

With these stats you can go very bulky, and not hit as hard, or you can pretty much play it safe and let it be able to take a hit, and hit back just as hard, if not harder.

I'll explain in more detail later, it's pretty late atm.

 

[Deck Knight]

Wow, I hate to be such a prick right after coming back from Bermuda, but really guys: 555-560 BST spreads? Give me an break. Can't you guys innovate anything without the crutch of massive BST? Even Kingdra and Blissey managed to keep it to 540...

Anyway, for a Quite Good Rating:

104//73/88/67/81/112 = 525 BST

Physical Sweepiness: 114, Rank 1: Above Average
Physical Tankiness: 133, Rank 3: Good
Special Sweepiness: 105, Rank 0: Average
Special Tankiness: 124, Rank 2: Moderately Good
ODB: -8.4, Slight Bias to Defense
PSB: 8.2, Slight Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 282. Quite Good.

104 HP: I'm a sucker for 101 HP Subs, and this provides those plus a little wiggle room.

Offenses: Pretty standard middling offense, this is a utility so I'm mostly focused on speed and defenses. This keeps it in line with the polls.

Defenses: A physical focus without letting SDef hang out to dry.

Speed: A slight bump up past Gengar, but less than the 115 denizens.

For a Very Good Rating:

107/76/91/67/87/112 = BST 540

Physical Sweepiness: 119, Rank 1: Above Average
Physical Tankiness: 139, Rank 3: Good
Special Sweepiness: 105, Rank 0: Average
Special Tankiness: 134, Rank 3: Good
ODB: -8.7, Slight Bias to Defense
PSB: 8.7, Slight Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 326. Very Good.


107 HP: See above.

Offenses: More Focus on Attack and a speed bump over Gengar.

Defenses: See above, but tankier >_>

Speed: See above.

Oh yeah, and for my 560 BST build just slap +20 BST onto Speed for 132. (Ups physical sweepiness to Rank 2: Good, and Overall to 336, Very Good.) Take That Jolteon/Aerodactyl/Crobat!

 

[Aldaron]

Man, I'll tell you right now I am going to put 100% support behind any spread with speed above 110.

 

[Time Mage]

I talked before about supporting very high speeds for this one, but that was mainly because putting speed EVs on a pokémon that has to defend itself decently is pretty difficult, so a high base would make up for a lack of speed EVs, which would be put in other stats.

However, X-Act's approach makes speed EVs viable, along with good defenses with only investing EVs in HP. So that's why I think his spread is the best, since it combines bulkiness and speed in a very elegant way.

 

[Mr.Doom]

110HP / 90Atk / 100Def / 70 SpAtk / 95 SpDef / 110 Spd (575 BST)

ODB: -5.1 (Slight Bias to Defense)
PSB: 16.0 (Moderate Bias to Physical)

Overall Rating: 483 (Excelent)


My Base Stat idea. It's free to change it at your will (>_>).

 

[Aldaron]

Since it seems like Very Good is going to win, I am going to 100% support those who can get a Speed above 110 and an Attack at or above 80 within the Very Good guideline.

Speed I'm still absolutely emphasizing, and Attack I want to be at least 80 because Earthquake is amazing in Gravity. I can totally picture one of its utility sets being Gravity, Spikes, Roar, Earthquake.

Take that Flying / Levitating Pokemon.

 

[Time Mage]

In fact, I'd love an 80 Attack (but no more!) and 110 (but no more!) speed pokémon. X-Act's spread with those two changes would be super-awesome. And since he has room to ad stat points because the one he posted was "very good", I hope he does just that :P

 

[X-Act]

Wow, I hate to be such a prick right after coming back from Bermuda, but really guys: 555-560 BST spreads? Give me an break. Can't you guys innovate anything without the crutch of massive BST? Even Kingdra and Blissey managed to keep it to 540...

A 15/25/230/25/230/75 stat spread has 600 BST.
Syclant's 70/116/70/114/64/121 stat spread has 555 BST.

Which is better?

Hint: Syclant's stat rating: 593 (Fantastic)
The other Pokemon's stat rating: 167 (Below Average)

This is despite the fact that the first stat spread has supposedly 600 BST while the other has 555 BST.

Maybe I want a Pokemon with low HP and high Defenses that's actually good?

 

[linton]

This time I mixed X-Act's stats (I hope that's OK) while trying to get 80Att+ with 110Spd+ and I think I did OK.

BST Total: 556. I know it's a weird number but I think it's still OK

100th post!

 

[Icy Vegeta]

Aw crap... looks as if I need yet ANOTHER spread.

 

[Mr.Doom]

Since it seems like Very Good is going to win, I am going to 100% support those who can get a Speed above 110 and an Attack at or above 80 within the Very Good guideline.

Speed I'm still absolutely emphasizing, and Attack I want to be at least 80 because Earthquake is amazing in Gravity. I can totally picture one of its utility sets being Gravity, Spikes, Roar, Earthquake.

Take that Flying / Levitating Pokemon.

Aldaron, a Speed above 110 is kinda overkill. It has to be fast, but not as fast as a jet :/

And yes, Earthquake and Gravity, plus with an workable Attack stat and good speed would do wonders for this Pokémon :D