CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 16 - Complete Movepool Discussion/Submissions

[Magmortified]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Kitsunoh

Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.

Type: Steel / Ghost
Ability: Frisk / Limber
Stats: 80 HP / 103 Atk / 85 Def /55 SpA /80 SpD /110 Spe

This is the thread where all competitive moves are integrated into a complete pokemon movepool, which includes Level-Up, TM, HM, and Egg Moves. This is also the thread where Breeding Group is discussed.

Based on participation in the previous movepool threads, the TL should select several members to present a complete movepool submission.

Allowed moves are the ONLY Competitive moves that are allowed in a final movepool. All other Competitive moves, even those not mentioned in the Move discussion thread -- are NOT ALLOWED in a final movepool.

Any Non-Competitive move can be included in a complete movepool.

If anyone attempts to include additional Competitive moves, not agreed in the previous polls, it will be the TL's responsibility to see that the submitter removes them from the full movepool submission.

X-Act wrote a guide that describes the characteristics of an appropriate movepool. That guide is located here, and should be used as a reference for all movepool submitters.

A new move named Shadow Strike has been agreed upon as an Allowed move. The details are as follows:

Shadow Strike (Name subject to change later on)
Type: Ghost
Physical
Power: 80
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10
Special Effect: 50% chance of lowering defense 1 stage

Reference:
You must follow these guidelines.

Offensive Moves:
Allowed:
-U-Turn
-Shadow Sneak
-Shadow Claw
-Bullet Punch
-Iron Head
-Shadow Punch
-Thunderpunch
-Icepunch
-Fake Out
-Thief
-Knock Off
-Firepunch
-Drain Punch
-Iron Tail
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
-Thunder Fang
-Aqua Tail
-Rock Slide
-Brick Break
-Shadow Force
-Body Slam
-Dig
-Bonemerang
-Stone Edge
-Superpower
-Crush Claw
-Earthquake
-Cross Chop
-Meteor Mash
-Shadow Strike

Unallowed:
-Physical Grass moves
-Volt Tackle
-Explosion
-Brave Bird

Supporting Moves:
Allowed:
-Perish Song
-Torment
-Whirlwind
-Charm
-Metal Sound
-Screech
-Fake Tears
-Featherdance
-Safeguard
-Taunt
-Yawn
-Haze
-Memento
-Glare
-Hypnosis
-Curse
-Confuse Ray
-Snatch
-Will-o-Wisp
-Trick
-Grudge
-Magic Coat
-Tickle
-Scary Face
-Heart Swap
-Moonlight
-Synthesis
-Me First
-Baton Pass
-Psycho Shift

Unallowed:
-Moves that increase stats by stages (i.e. Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Howl, Calm Mind, etc.)
-Moves that always recover 50% HP (i.e. Recover, Milk Drink, etc.)
-Spore
-Dark Void
-Lovely Kiss
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Transform

Resources:
X-Act's Movepool Guide - Use to create movepools
Competitive Move Lists - Unless found in the Allowed lists above, these moves are considered Unallowed.

 

[Deck Knight]

Humbly submitted for your approval.

[B]Level-Up:[/B]

H. Me First
- Scratch
- Growl
07. Fake Out
11. Metal Claw
14. Shadow Sneak
17. Yawn
22. Confuse Ray
25. Magic Coat
29. Scary Face
33. [B]Shadow Strike[/B]
36. Screech
36. Metal Sound
43. [B]Glare[/B]
49. Perish Song
56. [B]Meteor Mash[/B]

[B]Level-Up Move count: 16[/B]

Directly viable, non-TM, and competitively reliable: Shadow Strike, Glare, Meteor Mash.

Useful but not game-breaking: Me First, Fake Out, Shadow Sneak, Yawn, Confuse Ray, Magic Coat, Scary Face, Screech, Metal Sound, Perish Song.

[B]Egg Moves:

Egg Group: Ground/Indeterminate[/B]

Charm
Poison Fang
Pain Split
Curse
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
[B]Moonlight
Destiny Bond[/B]
Double Kick
[B]Memento[/B]
Haze

[B]Egg Move count: 12[/B]

Directly viable, non-TM, competitively reliable: Memento, Moonlight, Destiny Bond.

Useful but not game-breaking: Charm, Elemental Punches, Pain Split, Curse, Haze

[B]TM List:[/B]

TM03: Water Pulse
TM05: [B]Roar[/B]
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM11: Sunny Day
TM12: [B]Taunt[/B]
TM13: [B]Ice Beam[/B]
TM14: [B]Blizzard[/B]
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: [B]Safeguard[/B]
TM21: Frustration
TM23: [B]Iron Tail[/B]
TM24: [B]Thunderbolt[/B]
TM25: [B]Thunder[/B]
TM26: [B]Earthquake[/B]
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM29: Psychic
TM30: [B]Shadow Ball[/B]
TM31: [B]Brick Break[/B]
TM32: Double Team
TM34: Shock Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM37: Sandstorm
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: [B]Torment[/B]
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM46: Thief
TM48: [B]Skill Swap[/B]
TM49: [B]Snatch[/B]
TM54: False Swipe
TM58: Endure
TM61: [B]Will-O-Wisp[/B]
TM63: Embargo
TM65: [B]Shadow Claw[/B]
TM66: Payback
TM67: [B]Recycle[/B]
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM71: [B]Stone Edge[/B]
TM72: [B]Avalanche[/B]
TM77: [B]Psych Up[/B]
TM78: Captivate
TM79: Dark Pulse
TM80: [B]Rock Slide[/B]
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM85: Dream Eater
TM87: Swagger
TM89: [B]U-turn[/B]
TM90: Substitute
TM91: [B]Flash Cannon[/B]
TM92: [B]Trick Room[/B]
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM06: Rock Smash
HM08: Rock Climb

[B]Tutor Moves:[/B]
Fury Cutter
Icy Wind
[B]Knock Off[/B]
Ominous Wind
[B]Sucker Punch
Trick
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt[/B]
Helping Hand
Last Resort
[B]Magnet Rise[/B]
Snore
Spite
[B]Aqua Tail[/B]
[B]Iron Head[/B]
Mud Slap
[B]Superpower[/B]

Notable TMs and Tutors:

Attacks:
Earthquake, Iron Tail, Brick Break, Stone Edge, Avalanche, Rock Slide, U-turn
Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Zen Headbutt, Aqua Tail, Iron Head, Superpower

Support:
Roar, Taunt, Safeguard, Torment, Skill Swap, Snatch, Will-O-Wisp, Psych Up, Trick Room
Trick, Magnet Rise

Notable omissions:

Special fire moves, Baton Pass.

I've slightly come around on the Punches and have decided that the elemental punches themselves are not particularly egregious (Cross Chop, Drain Punch, and Focus Punch however, are.) I have them in Egg Moves and not tutors, but it's largely a distinction without a difference since I'm assuming Ground Egg group. The reason I don't support special fire moves is because most Ghost and Steel types do not learn them, and while I want a Metal Sound set to be viable, I thought fire moves and Earth Power would be too much.

 

[freakyvillain]

I have Fangs instead of Punches because I could not support Punches while doing justice to the artist's design. It's disrespectful to say. "Well yeah, it's nice but... lets just assume its a humanshape biped, kay?"

Why should CAP7 be stuck with weaker versions of punches just because its sprite happens to stand on four legs? The art is completely irrelevant to CAP's purpose; it makes the game look nicer but you could substitute a blank square in place of any sprite and the metagame wouldn't be affected.

 

[bpblu]

I have Fangs instead of Punches because I could not support Punches while doing justice to the artist's design. It's disrespectful to say. "Well yeah, it's nice but... lets just assume its a humanshape biped, kay?"

Then why does your movepool contain Sucker Punch? Also, Gastly would like to have a word with you concerning the idea of "punching".

 

[jumpluff]

lalalalalalala 'sucker punch is actually named "ambush" in japanese' lalalala same old stuff

sucker punches don't have to be literal either

furthermore cap doesn't give a shit about flavour, and game freak only do to an extent. see: gastly

 

[bpblu]

*facepalm* Alright, alright... good point Misaki-chi.

Eh, regardless, I'm probably not changing Deck Knight's opinion. But still... we do have the moves... why not just utilize them?

 

[Starkclamp]

I have Fangs instead of Punches because I could not support Punches while doing justice to the artist's design. It's disrespectful to say. "Well yeah, it's nice but... lets just assume its a humanshape biped, kay?"

Kitsunoh quite clearly lacks a mouth save that on the unmoving mask, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from on that. Given those paws, It can certainly punch more effectively than it can bite. Also the punches are better moves so screw flavor

 

[Deck Knight]

*facepalm* Alright, alright... good point Misaki-chi.

Eh, regardless, I'm probably not changing Deck Knight's opinion. But still... we do have the moves... why not just utilize them?

Yeah. Art is pointless. You hear that artists? All your work is a big, fat, pointless waste of time. People will not respect your artistic vision. You have literally wasted hours of your valuable time and talent just so that the physics and grace you tried to achieve in your design can be spat upon by people who look at Ice Punch Wooper and say "that is the model of CAP. Nonsense at any cost, as long as it's marginally more competitive."

You want a quadruped using punches? Fine. Vote for that movepool then. Sure, its a cosmic joke that makes people take CAP even less seriously than they already do, but hey, this is a competitive project. A competitive project that the vast majority of "art doesn't matter" bloviators refuse to participate in when playtesting time comes around.

EDIT: as far as being mouthless: that was an older design and not the finished product/final submission. For all intents and purposes I assume the mouth is more than just a clever feature on the pokemon's face, just like Cubone's and Duskull's "masks" are also cleverly marked features.

 

[Mekkah]

This thing standing on its hind legs just to punch something is less farfetched than many, many, many things in this whole Pokemon world. No need to get all sarcastic about it.

 

[Deck Knight]

Yeah, don't really see the need to remove the punches. Elemental punches Gastly, DynamicPunch Wooper, ect, ect.

Something interesting I noticed in Deck Knight's movepool is that he gave it Double Kick as an egg move. But it would strike me as being easier for a quadruped to do a jab with its forelegs, than for it to do a kicking-attack. In order for it to do a kick that would actually make contact with an opponent either equal to or larger in size to it, it would either have to support itself on its opponent with its forelegs, stand on its rear limbs, and kick, or face opposite to its opponent and kick. Seems just as reasonable to call a fistless jab a punch (especially since the definition of a punch, "a thrusting blow, esp. with the fist," places large emphasis on a fist, doesn't list it as an actual requirement) to me, as believing this would actually be able to kick efficiently during battle.

http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/doublekick.shtml

Several users on this list are quadrupeds, some hooved, others not.

Really, the only move I had a stylistic beef with that's still on the movepool was Brick Break, but I found it a minor nuisance considering I greenlighted Superpower and Double Kick. As a last note, I just think the forelegs are too long and too feline/canine. It kind of works visually for me with Quilava and Flaffy because their arms are short and stubby, but with the shoulder masks and the fully developed legs I just can't visualize it being able to do more than a slashing motion.

 

[Naxte]

http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/doublekick.shtml

Several users on this list are quadrupeds, some hooved, others not.

Really, the only move I had a stylistic beef with that's still on the movepool was Brick Break, but I found it a minor nuisance considering I greenlighted Superpower and Double Kick.

Gah, yeah, that was really just my lack of sleep talking; was thinking of a kick as a strike using one's (hind) legs when I was typing that. >.<

 

[Plus]

Level Up:

H. Fire Fang
H. Ice Fang
H. Thunder Fang
- Scratch
- Growl
- Leer
4. Knock Off
9. Me First
12. Shadow Sneak
15. Fake Out
20. Screech
20. Charm
20. Fake Tears
29. Body Slam
35. Crunch
39. Sucker Punch
41. Glare
44. Baton Pass
47. Confuse Ray
[B]50. Shadow Strike[/B]
58. Meteor Mash
73. Psycho Shift

TMs:

TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM58 - Endure
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash

Move Tutor: 

Ominous Wind
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Snore
Mud Slap 
Superpower
Magnet Rise
Aqua Tail
Trick
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Fire Punch

Egg Moves

Haze
Tickle
Scary Face
Moonlight
Cross Chop
Grudge
Memento
Yawn
Curse
Perish Song
Baton Pass
Reversal
Destiny Bond
Metronome
Astonish
Spite
Disable

Egg Groups: Ground, Indeterminate


Here's mines.

I'll edit in some reasoning later but I tried to be as lenient as possible. I'll also add in a few flavor moves soon but for now this is the foundation of my movepool.

 

[bpblu]

Wow... you make one punch comment and you cause an uproar. You know, Deck Knight, regardless of Fangs or Punches, I do like the moveset you created.

 

[Infiltrator]

Level-Up:
   
  H. Scratch
  - Tickle
  - Thief
  09. Quick Attack
  13. Shadow Sneak
  17. Confuse Ray
  22. Yawn
  27. Crush Claw
  32. Glare
  36. [B]Shadow Strike[/B]
  42. Metal Sound
  46. [B]Perish Song[/B]
  54. [B]Meteor Mash[/B]

Three amazing moves in it's level-up list. Perish Song is one of the best ways to force switches, while Meteor Mash and Shadow Strike provides great STAB power.

Egg Moves:
  Moonlight
  Thunder Punch
  Fire Punch
  Ice Punch
  Aqua Tail
  Featherdance
  Psycho Shift
  Cross Chop

TM List:
   
  TM03: Water Pulse
 [B] TM06: Toxic[/B]
  TM10: Hidden Power
[B]  TM12: Taunt[/B]
  TM13: Ice Beam
  TM14: Blizzard
  TM15: Hyper Beam
  TM17: Protect
  TM18: Rain Dance
  TM20: Safeguard
  TM23: Iron Tail 
  TM24: Thunderbolt
  TM25: Thunder
  TM28: Dig
  TM30: Shadow Ball
  TM31: Brick Break
  TM32: Double Team
  TM34: Shock Wave
  TM36: Sludge Bomb
  TM36: Flamethrower
  TM38: Fire Blast
  TM39: Aerial Ace
  TM41: Torment
  TM42: Façade
  TM43: Secret Power
  TM44: Rest
  TM45: Attract
  TM46: Thief
  TM49: Snatch
  TM52: Focus Blast
  TM53: Energy Ball
  TM56: Fling
  TM57: Charge Beam
[B]  TM61: Will-O-Wisp[/B]
  TM62: Silver Wind
  TM63: Embargo
[B]  TM65: Shadow Claw[/B]
  TM66: Payback
  TM68: Giga Impact
[B]  TM73: Thunder Wave[/B]
  TM78: Captivate
  TM79: Dark Pulse
  TM82: Sleep Talk
  TM84: Poison Jab
  TM85: Dream Eater
  [B]TM89: U-turn[/B]
  TM90: Substitute
  TM91: Flash Cannon
  TM92: Trick Room
  HM04: Strength 
  HM05: De Fog
  HM06: Rock Smash
  HM08: Rock Climb

Toxic is a great choice of an non-attacking moves against bulky water types. Taunt will be able to stop Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and other supporting moves like Trick Room etc. Willo-O-Wisp with help against Tyranitar and other pokemon that puts a threat to Kitsunoh. Thunder-Wave will cripple fast sweepers. U-turn, obiviously an amazing move for the Ultimate Scout.

Tutor Moves:
  [B]Ice Punch[/B]
 [B] Iron Head[/B]
  Last Resort
  Screech
  Icy Wind
  Knock Off
  Magnet Rise
  Superpower

Ice punch for great coverage over ground types. Iron Head for STAB and flinch. Maybe Super Power to OHKO Tyranitar.

 

[1059860]

Here I will submit my set as well. Hopefully you guys will like it.

Level Up:
H: Ice Fang
H: Thunder Fang
H: Fire Fang
--: Tail Whip
--: Tackle
--: Metal Claw
01: Metal Claw
01: Tackle
01: Tail Whip
06: Knock Off
10: Bullet Punch
15: Shadow Sneak
20: Tickle
24: Curse (Ghost type)
26: Iron Head
33: Shadow Claw
37: Magnet Bomb
40: Crunch
44: Metal Sound
49: Moonlight (it's allowed)
52: Iron Tail
55: Shadow Strike
62: Crush Claw
67: Perish Song
71: Meteor Mash
75: Glare

This movepool is similar to Jolteon's, learning moves up till the mid-70's. It only contains moves that would fit the art (such as Kitsunoh cannot possible Hydro Pump)... I did not include Shadow Force and Heart Swap because they're supposed to be Giratina and Manaphy's signature moves, respectively.

TM/HMs:

TM03: Water Pulse
TM05: Roar
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM11: Sunny Day
TM12: Taunt
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: Safeguard
TM21: Frustration
TM23: Iron Tail
TM24: Thunderbolt
TM25: Thunder
TM26: Earthquake
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM29: Psychic
TM30: Shadow Ball
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM34: Shock Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM37: Sandstorm
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: Torment
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM46: Thief
TM49: Snatch
TM54: False Swipe
TM56: Fling
TM58: Endure
TM61: Will-O-Wisp
TM63: Embargo
TM65: Shadow Claw
TM66: Payback
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM71: Stone Edge
TM72: Avalanche
TM74: Gyro Ball
TM77: Psych Up
TM78: Captivate
TM79: Dark Pulse
TM80: Rock Slide
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM85: Dream Eater
TM87: Swagger
TM89: U-turn
TM90: Substitute
TM91: Flash Cannon
TM92: Trick Room
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM06: Rock Smash
HM08: Rock Climb

The obvious things that this thing can and should learn. I did not include Stealth Rock because it's not part of the Allowed category nor is it a competitive move.

Tutor:

• Aqua Tail
• Bounce
• Earth Power
• Iron Head
• Mud Slap
• Roll Out
• Signal Beam
• Superpower
• Wring Out
• Knock Off
• Ominous Wind
• Sucker Punch
• Trick
• Vacuum Wave
• Zen Headbutt
• Helping Hand
• Last Resort
• Snore
• Spite

I did not give the elemental punches because that thing doesn't look like it can punch, so I went along with the design. As for Sucker Punch, look at Dugtrio ;)

Egg Moves:

Night Slash
False Swipe
Imprison
Momento
Grudge
Destiny Bond
Psych Up
Lucky Chant
Smokescreen
Screech

My projected egg-group is Indeterminate, along with things like Weezing, Wobbuffet, Gardevoir, and Dusknoir. If this changes, I will change my Egg Moves.

 

[billymills]

Any specific reason you all have Shadow Strike bolded in your movepools? Yes, i can see that it's there. Now please make a comment about it, or bold something that you want noticed.

 

[Scoopapa]

Yeah. Art is pointless. You hear that artists? All your work is a big, fat, pointless waste of time. People will not respect your artistic vision. You have literally wasted hours of your valuable time and talent just so that the physics and grace you tried to achieve in your design can be spat upon by people who look at Ice Punch Wooper and say "that is the model of CAP. Nonsense at any cost, as long as it's marginally more competitive."

You want a quadruped using punches? Fine. Vote for that movepool then. Sure, its a cosmic joke that makes people take CAP even less seriously than they already do, but hey, this is a competitive project. A competitive project that the vast majority of "art doesn't matter" bloviators refuse to participate in when playtesting time comes around.

EDIT: as far as being mouthless: that was an older design and not the finished product/final submission. For all intents and purposes I assume the mouth is more than just a clever feature on the pokemon's face, just like Cubone's and Duskull's "masks" are also cleverly marked features.

Thank you so much for this. Nowhere in the CAP rules or the movepool creating guide does it say not to base any of your decisions on the art. If you think that's how CAP should be run that way, then submit that way and vote that way. You have no right to tell other people that that's how they have to do it.

 

[Vividsketch]

Sorry to come into this thread as such a 'negative Nelly', but the Level Up and Egg move list are WAY too long on some of these submissions. Realistically I think we should be restricting our selves to a max of around 16 moves on the Level Up list (which can include max of approximately 3 Heart Scale moves) and a max of around 12 Egg moves.

Of course there do exist exceptions to this rule in the pokemon world already, such as Tyranitar's Level Up list, but it is a general guide. A guide line that is in fact fairly clearly stated in X-Act's Movepool Guide. I don't understand why this is being ignored.

Also there is one other thing I wanted to clear up, since I clearly don't understand this either. The OP quite clearing states this:

Allowed moves are the ONLY Competitive moves that are allowed in a final movepool. All other Competitive moves, even those not mentioned in the Move discussion thread -- are NOT ALLOWED in a final movepool.

Any Non-Competitive move can be included in a complete movepool.

If anyone attempts to include additional Competitive moves, not agreed in the previous polls, it will be the TL's responsibility to see that the submitter removes them from the full movepool submission.

Resources:
Competitive Move Lists - Unless found in the Allowed lists above, these moves are considered Unallowed.

Yet already I'm seeing in many submmissions thus far, especially in the TM and Tutor Lists, several move such as; Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt, Return, Crunch, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, ect ect....

Now while I fully understand (and agree in most cases) why these would be considared 'Non Competitive' Moves in Kitsunoh case, yet according to the OP's criteria, these moves should still be considared 'Unallowed'!!

I think there is a conflict here, and I was just wanting clarification.

 

[Magmortified]

Yet already I'm seeing in many submmissions thus far, especially in the TM and Tutor Lists, several move such as; Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt, Return, Crunch, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, ect ect....

Now while I fully understand (and agree in most cases) why these would be considared 'Non Competitive' Moves in Kitsunoh case, yet according to the OP's criteria, these moves should still be considared 'Unallowed'!!

I think there is a conflict here, and I was just wanting clarification.

From the Attacking/Support Moves Discussion thread:

Competitive moves are moves that are viable for use in battle on a given pokemon. This categorization is applicable depending on the pokemon. Sometimes a move will be competitive on one pokemon and non-competitive for another.

Basically, what moves are defined as competitive change based on the Pokemon. So Thunderbolt on something with 55 base Special Attack is fair game.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

UPDATE: I made the Egg moves semi randomly. I'm revising them. The Egg group is Field and Amorphous. I'm also bolding the competitive moves.

UPDATE 2: I am now explaining the movesets.

UPDATE 3: My, my. I'm sure updating this alot! Anyway, I'm adding Baton Pass to the egg moveset. Kitsunoh can now learn Superpower from a move tutor.

UPDATE 4: I think you know the drill. Swapped Take Down for Cross Chop

Level Up:
1. Magnet Rise (Heart Scale)
1. Cross Chop(Heart Scale)
1. Ice Punch (Heart Scale)
1. Metal Claw
6. Disable
9. Foresight
14. Scary Face
17. Pursuit
22. Bullet Punch
25. Shadow Strike
30. Curse
33. Will-O-Wisp
37. Shadow Punch
43. Meteor Mash
51. Payback
61. Hyper Beam

The moves here are a combination of moves learnt by Dusknoir and those learnt by Metagross. The level up system is like Dusknoir's as well, The highest being at level 61. There is a nice selection of viable moves here.

Egg Moves:
Astonish
Covet
Fire Fang
Ice Fang
Thunder Fang
Sucker Punch
Yawn
Shadow Sneak
Poison Fang
Baton Pass

These moves are inspired by the egg moves learnt by Mightyena and Banette. Not much here, but there are some priority moves and Baton Pass.

TMs:
TM01- Focus Punch
TM06- Toxic
TM10- Hidden Power
TM11- Sunny Day
TM12- Taunt
TM13- Ice Beam
TM14- Blizzard
TM15- Hyper Beam
TM17- Protect
TM18- Rain Dance
TM20- Safeguard
TM21- Frustration
TM23- Iron Tail
TM26- Earthquake
TM27- Return
TM28- Dig
TM29- Psychic
TM30- Shadow Ball
TM31- Brick Break
TM32- Double Team
TM36- Sludge Bomb
TM37- Sandstorm
TM39- Rock Tomb
TM40- Aerial Ace
TM41- Torment
TM42- Facade
TM43- Secret Power
TM44- Rest
TM45- Attract
TM46- Theif
TM48- Skill Swap
TM49- Snatch
TM52- Focus Blast
TM56- Fling
TM57- Charge Beam
TM58- Endure
TM60- Drain Punch
TM61- Will-O-Wisp
TM63- Embargo
TM65- Shadow Claw
TM66- Payback
TM68- Giga Impact
TM70- Flash
TM71- Stone Edge
TM74- Gyro Ball
TM76- Stealth Rock
TM77- Psych Up
TM78- Captivate
TM79- Dark Pulse
TM80- Rock Slide
TM82- Sleep Talk
TM83- Natural Gift
TM85- Dream Eater
TM86- Grass Knot
TM87- Swagger
TM89- U-turn
TM90- Substitute
TM91- Flash Cannon
TM92- Trick Room
HM01- Cut
HM04- Strength
HM06- Rock Smash

More inspiration from Dusknoir and Metagross, with extras. U-turn is the most notable addition. Some decent attack options.

Tutor Moves:
Fire Punch
Fury Cutter
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Magnet Rise
Mud-Slap
Ominous Wind
Rollout
Signal Beam
Snore
Spite
Sucker Punch
Superpower
Swift
Thunderpunch
Trick
Zen Headbutt

More attacks, including the elemental punches (I was thinking that the tail can be shaped into any form, so a fist would let Kitsunoh punch. I was thinking of mentioning it in a Pokedex entry, if it is being run) and Trick as a support option.

I will be updating this later on.

 

[hydrolphin]

Level-Up:
  Level Up:
H.Glare
- Tickle
- Bite
04. Growl
09. Beat Up
16. Fake Out
23. Metal Claw
23. Shadow Claw
27. Switcheroo
30. Mirror Shot
36. Scary Face
39. Psycho Shift
45. Torment
51. Shadow Strike
60. Meteor Mash

Pretty Basic. Has both allowed STABs (Meteor Mash and Shadow Strike), Scary Face, Tickle and Fake Out for the competetive moves not already in TM/Tutors. Tickle was one of my more intresting choices, as I saw it forcing switches on more things than Charm and Screech.

Egg Moves:
-Shadow Sneak
-Memento
-Grudge
-Lick
-Me First
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
-Thunder Fang
-Hypnosis

Mostly adds marginally competietive moves. everything her barring lick is usable, but nothing really stands out as a great move.

Egg Groups are Intermediate and Ground

TM List:
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 – Solar Beam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

Basic Stuff here, except that there are no Fire moves and no SR.

Tutor Moves:
Fury Cutter
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Sucker Punch
Trick
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Snore
Spite
Swift
Uproar
Ancient Power
Aqua Tail
Iron Head
Mud Slap
Rollout
Signal Beam

Stuff Left Out:
Baton Pass-U-Turn is better anyway
Magnet Rise-We voted against Levitate for a reason
Elemental Punches-not Flavourful, and it has the fangs
Superpower/Cross Chop-Brick Break is decent, and it already hits Steels with EQ
Fire Moves: See above
Moonlight/Synthesis-This thing has no need to be healing.

 

[Leman]

Kitsunoh Movepool

Level Up:
H: Thunder Fang

- Shadow Sneak
- Smokescreen
6 - Scary Face
11 – Quick Attack
16 – Ominous Wind
20 – Confuse Ray
27 – Curse
32 –Metal Sound
36 - Smog
41 – Leer
48 – Will-o-Wisp
56 – Shadow Ball
61 – Iron Head
66 – Shadow Strike

15 Moves
Competitive: Shadow Strike, Thunder Fang, Shadow Sneak (3), Metal Sound sort of.



Breeding Moves (Intermediate):
- Baton Pass (Drifblim)
- Mean Look (Gengar/Dusknoir/Gardevoir/Gallade/Muk)
- Perish Song (Mismagius/Gengar)
- Nightmare (Gengar)
- Spite (Banette/Gengar/Mismagius/Spiritomb/Weezing)
- Shadow Ball (Gardevoir/Gallade/Gengar/Spiritomb/Mismagius/Dusknoir/Driftlim)
- Assurance (Weezing)
- Lick (Gengar)

8 Moves
Competitive: Baton Pass, Mean Look, Perish Song (3)


TMs:
- Roar
- Toxic
- Hidden Power
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- Hyper Beam
- Protect
- Rain Dance
- Safegaurd
- Frustration
- Iron Tail
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder
- Return
- Dig
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Double Team
- Shock Wave
- Sandstorm
- Rock Tomb
- Torment
- Facade
- Secret Power
- Rest
- Attract
- Skill Swap
- Snatch
-Thief
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Endure
- Will-o-Wisp
- Silver Wind
- Embargo
- Payback
- Recycle
- Giga Impact
- Flash
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Psych Up
- Captivate
- Dark Pulse
- Sleep Talk
- Natural Gift
-Dream Eater
- U-Turn
- Flash Cannon
-Trick Room
- Defog
- Rock Smash

53 Moves
Competitive: Roar, Toxic, Taunt, Light Screen, Protect, Rest, Skill Swap, Thief, Snatch, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Psych Up, Sleep Talk, U-turn


Move Tutors:
- Knock Off
- Ominous Wind
- Sucker Punch
- Trick
- Zen Headbutt
- Snore
- Last Resort
- Spite
- Swift
- Uproar
- Aqua Tail
- Endeavor
- Iron Head
- Mud Slap
- Signal Beam
- Superpower

16 Moves
Competitive: Knock Off, Trick, Zen Headbutt, Spite, Aqua Tail, Iron Head, Superpower? (I'm considering removing this)




I specifically left out Brick Break/Cross Chop, Earthquake, and the elemental Punches/Fangs (except Thunder Fang), since I really don't think It should be getting past Steels. I also think it makes it a better scout, drawing out your opponent's Steel types, so you might be able to easier find a way for a Dragon sweep without revealing your Dragons. Otherwise its pretty standard, with a rather large special based movepool (No Fire attacks), and pretty much all electric attacks. Otherwise its pretty standards with a bunch of moves s that help with scouting, like Taunt, Torment, Knock Off, etc.

 

[Rave]

- Night Shade
- Lick
5 - Confuse Ray
8 - Screech
12 - Curse
15 - Leer
18 - Night Shade
23 - Metal Claw
29 - Bonemerang
34 - Dream Eater
37 - Meteor Mash
42 - Magic Coat
45 - Memento

4 competitive moves.
~ Meteor Mash
~ Bonemerang
~ Magic Coat
~ Screech

Egg Moves. Indeterminate Group.

Perish Song (Misdreavus, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar)
Baton Pass (Drifblim, Drifloon)
Psywave (Misdreavus, Mismagius, Chimecho, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar)
Astonish (Misdreavus, Duskull, Dusclops, Chimecho, Drifloon, Drifblim, Mismagius, Dusknoir, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar)
Fake Out (Sableye)
Destiny Bond (Misdreavus, Duskull, Dusclops, Chimecho, Drifloon, Drifblim, Mismagius, Dusknoir, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Spiritomb, Bannete, Shuppet)

2 competitive moves.
~ Fake Out
~ Destiny Bond

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM46 - Thief
TM58 - Endure
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM05 - Defog

3 competitive moves.
~ U-turn
~ Shadow Claw
~ Toxic

I have severely limited the attacking movepool to Steel/Ghost/Ground/Bug so that Cap7 is forced to focus more on support moves. Meteor Mash, U-Turn and Bonemerang are also unreliable attacks. The only solid offensive move I have given Cap7 is Shadow Claw.

I have restricted the status inflicting movepool to Toxic, once again forcing Cap7 to make use of more unorthodox options.

Cap7 has U-Turn, Substitute, Baton Pass, Destiny Bond, Confuse Ray, Perish Song, Fake Out, Torment, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Screech and Memento to make use of. All of these moves are more about mind games than anything else. People are prone to switching when confronted with mind games.

EDIT: I did forget move tutors. I'll get to that.

 

[darkie]

We voted for Quite Good over Very Good for one main reason: to give Kitsunoh an awesome movepool that can scout whatever it wants to scout. Here that movepool is. It follow X-Act's guidelines and competitive moves will be bolded.

--------------------------
LEVEL UP MOVES
--------------------------
Ice Fang (Heart)
Thunder Fang (Heart)
Scratch (-)
Tail Whip (-)
Lick (6)
Odor Sleuth (10)
Faint Attack (14)
Shadow Sneak (18)
Copycat (22)
Metal Claw (27)
Memento (31)
Fake Out (35)
Shadow Claw (40)
Revenge (44)
Shadow Strike (49)
Perish Song (55)

Memento allows Kitsunoh to bring in another Pokemon safely after its scouting duties have finished. Due to its high Speed, it will normally be able to Memento before the opponent kills it. Perish Song does a great job of forcing switches and can aid the team in the event of a last-Pokemon set up. Shadow Strike is a great STAB option that vastly outpowers any of Kitsunoh's other attacking options.

----------------
TMs & HMs
----------------
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Rock Climb

Toxic is Kitsunoh's best option against Suicune and other bulky Waters. Taunt can stop the set up of Stealth Rock and other support moves, gathering vital information regarding the makeup of the opponent's set. Protect is the quintessential scouting move, allowing Kitsunoh to see one of the opponent's moves without taking direct damage. Earthquake gives Kitsunoh a stronger option against Metagross and Jirachi, however it still suffers against Skarmory and Bronzong. However, due to lack of STAB and extremely high base attack, Kitsunoh will not wreak unnecessary havoc with the move. Will-o-Wisp helps against Tyranitar and Metagross hoping to switch in against Kitsunoh.

----------------------
TUTOR MOVES
----------------------
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Trick
Iron Head
Snore
Spite
Icy Wind

I decided to give this the punches for a couple reasons. One big reason was the great coverage they give: With Meteor Mash and Earthquake, they provide key coverage on many threats. This scout needs some firepower in order to force out big threats, so thats why they went in over the Fangs. However as you can see, the fangs are still in the movepool as flavor moves. Trick and Knock off are obvious tools for a scout, because both reveal the item of the opponent, and unlike Frisk, cripple them in the process. Iron Head is a reliable STAB move that can be used well due to its ability to flinch and Kitsunoh's high Speed.

------------------
EGG MOVES (Ground Group)
------------------
Featherdance
Metal Sound
Curse
Flail
Psycho Shift
Mud Slap
Yawn
Meteor Mash

Featherdance provides a good alternative for WoW, in that it can lower attack repeatedly, and to statused opponents. Psycho Shift is not competitive, as Kitsunoh has access to WoW, Toxic, and limber. The only status it could pass is Sleep, from a rest talk set. That uses up 3 of 4 moves, and leaving room for only 1 offensive move or U-Turn, which is rarely useful. Yawn is yet another status, it is a scouting status, as most would prefer to switch than take the sleep. With Kitsunoh's overall type coverage, anything with -2 defense will take a decent hit. Meteor Mash provides an alternative to Iron Head as steel STAB.

The Egg group is Ground, and Kitsunoh can get all moves from Smeargle.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

What is with the anti-fire move thing? The only good physical fire move it's allow to learn is Fire Punch, but lol it seem people forget about that little detail when choosing CAP7's design. The only good special fire move it can learn is Fire Blast, but with a pathetic 55 SpA the only thing it could threaten are Forrty and Scizor. It seem we randomly choose things to exclude without little to no reason whatsoever.

The only set that appeals to me so far is Plus followed by Hybrid99 who might want to know that Shadow Force isn't a tutor move.

Edit: Darkie, what's the reason behind the lack of Fighting moves within your movepool? Did you believed they weren't of any use on CAP7?