CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 16 - Complete Movepool Discussion/Submissions

[billymills]

Also, why are the punches more viably competitive than the fangs? With neutral nature and min attack, the fangs deal 97.58% - 114.80%, 65.56% - 77.34%, and 52.33% - 61.63% to Salamence, Gyarados and max hp Scizor respectively, more than enough damage to force a switch. What merit do the punches hold that we should sacrifice our satisfaction of having the aesthetic and competitive aspects of our CAP in line?

Because art doesn't matter, any damage helps, and removing that 5% miss could be pretty important 5% of the time.

 

[TVboyCanti]

Again, I would like to know what CAP7 threatens with punches that it doesn't threaten with fangs.

 

[freakyvillain]

Again, I would like to know what CAP7 threatens with punches that it doesn't threaten with fangs.

The punches make CAP7 better at its job; that's all that matters. There's no question that punches are better than fangs; thus it should get them. There's no trade off here between art and metagame; if there is a conflict, metagame supercedes art. If ever that Fire Fang leaves a Scizor with 3% of its health as it procedes to KO you or that Ice Fang misses Salamence at a crucial moment allowing it to sweep, all because of art, then we're better off getting rid of all the pictures and using blank squares instead of sprites.

 

[Starkclamp]

I still don't see how the fangs could go over punches even if we did say this was based entirely on art. Its only mouth is the mask's mouth. It has no way to bite. A lot of people's female sprites don't even have a mouth on the mask, so when it gets to that it might be completely impossible for one gender! Would you say that only male Kitsunoh get elemental fangs? Because that's pretty dumb. It could at least 'punch' by striking with its forepaws. Pikachu and Raichu get Thunderpunch, after all.

 

[IC3R.]

If ever that Fire Fang leaves a Scizor with 3% of its health as it procedes to KO you...

What exactly is Scizor going to KO Kitsunoh with? Pursuit is the only thing Scizor uses that can even remotely put a dent in it;

Adamant 252Att Choice Band Scizor's Pursuit vs. Jolly 4HP/0Def Kitsunoh = ~41.09%-48.34%

Even if Scizor crits, Pursuit is not going to KO. Scizor shouldn't be switching into Kitsunoh anyway; there's simply no reason to...

IMO

-----------
To cease the flavour argument, let's make Elemental Claws D=

 

[darkie]

This argument has no place in this thread. Any more posts about it will be deleted and infracted. If you want to put the Punches in your movepool go ahead; if you prefer the Fangs, you may proceed; if you like neither, then put neither. It's simple.

 

[foibles]

What exactly is Scizor going to KO Kitsunoh with? Pursuit is the only thing Scizor uses that can even remotely put a dent in it;

Adamant 252Att Choice Band Scizor's Pursuit vs. Jolly 4HP/0Def Kitsunoh = ~41.09%-48.34%

Even if Scizor crits, Pursuit is not going to KO. Scizor shouldn't be switching into Kitsunoh anyway; there's simply no reason to...

IMO

-----------
To cease the flavour argument, let's make Elemental Claws D=

this brings up a good point. if given a fire move CAP7 would be a good scizor counter.

 

[Deck Knight]

Why do so many movesets include Iron Defense when the rules explicitly say that stat increasing moves are not allowed?

Without Baton Pass on my set I assumed Iron Defense was not a competitive move. Things with infinitely better defense like Steelix learn Iron Defense, and never use it. Scizor only uses it if it's a Baton Passer, even though surviving random physical attacks might let it sweep easier.

Are there any pokemon other than Baton Passers that even use Iron Defense? The only thing I can think of right now are Vaporeon and Muk, with Acid Armor to boot.

 

[Bull of Heaven]

Meteor Mash (Japanese: コメットパンチ Comet Punch): The foe is hit with a hard punch fired like a meteor. It may also raise the user's Attack.

Something to think about if you, like me, don't want Kitsunoh to get any kind of punching attack. We've all seen the debate about the elemental Punches, but I don't think Meteor Mash has been brought up until now. Don't turn this into another argument; just keep it in mind if you think that art does matter.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Meteor_Mash_(move)#

 

[polelover44]

Level-up Movepool:
H. Thunder Fang
H. Ice Fang
H. Fire Fang
1. Fake Out
5. Torment
10. Roar
20. Memento
25. Haze
35. Metal Sound
45. Taunt
55. Moonlight
65. Shadow Strike

TM01 - Focus Punch
[B]TM02 - Dragon Claw[/B]
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM04 - Calm Mind
[B]TM05 - Roar[/B]
[B]TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail[/B]
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM09 - Bullet Seed
[B]TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day[/B] 
[B]TM12 - Taunt[/B]
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
[B]TM17 - Protect[/B]
[B]TM18 - Rain Dance[/B]
TM19 - Giga Drain
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
[B]TM23 - Iron Tail[/B]
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
[B]TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig[/B]
TM29 - Psychic
[B]TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break[/B]
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
[B]TM37 - Sandstorm[/B]
[B]TM38 - Fire Blast[/B]
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
[B]TM41 - Torment[/B]
[B]TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract[/B]
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Steel Wing
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM50 - Overheat
TM51 - Roost
[B]TM52 - Focus Blast[/B]
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM57 - Charge Beam
[B]TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse[/B]
TM60 - Drain Punch
[B]TM61 - Will-o-wisp[/B]
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM64 - Explosion
[B]TM65 - Shadow Claw[/B]
[B]TM66 - Payback[/B]
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
[B]TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball[/B]
TM75 - Swords Dance
[B]TM76 - Stealth Rock[/B]
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate 
[B]TM79 - Dark Pulse[/B]
TM80 - Rock Slide
[B]TM81 - X-scissor[/B]
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
[B]TM89 - U-turn[/B]
TM90 - Substitute
[B]TM91 - Flash Cannon[/B]
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM02 - Fly
HM03 - Surf
[B]HM04 - Strength[/B]
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
[B]HM07 - Waterfall
HM08 - Rock Climb[/B]

EDIT: Bolded all the moves that I'm giving it

Egg moves (Monster Group)
Ancientpower (Cranidos, Rampardos, Shieldon, Bastiodon)
Assurance (Cranidos, Rampardos)
Refresh (Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert
Zen Headbutt (Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking)
Metal Claw (Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Aron, Lairon, Aggron)
Iron Head (Cubone, Marowak, Larvitar, Pupitar, Tyranitar, Aron, Larion, Aggron, Shieldon Bastiodon)
Worry Seed (Bulbasaur, Ivysaur Venusaur)
Superpower (Totodile, Croconaw, Feraligatr)

 

[freakyvillain]

What exactly is Scizor going to KO Kitsunoh with? Pursuit is the only thing Scizor uses that can even remotely put a dent in it;

Adamant 252Att Choice Band Scizor's Pursuit vs. Jolly 4HP/0Def Kitsunoh = ~41.09%-48.34%

Even if Scizor crits, Pursuit is not going to KO. Scizor shouldn't be switching into Kitsunoh anyway; there's simply no reason to...

IMO

-----------
To cease the flavour argument, let's make Elemental Claws D=

You're assuming 100% health. And also, he can use Night Slash as well.

 

[IC3R.]

I actually thought of a way to overcome this problem: I thought that Kitsunoh can have a metamorphic tail. It can morph into a fist and let it punch things.

A metamorphic tail sounds great! Now the whole Fangs vs. Punches argument can be put away! Hallelujah!!!!!

That kinda reminds me of Midna from Twilight Princess, but anyway...


I noticed this:

Competitive Move Lists - Unless found in the Allowed lists above, these moves are considered Unallowed.

Does this means that moves like Icy Wind and Dark Pulse are not allowed to be in the final movepool? It's not like Kitsunoh's gonna dent anything with Base 55 SpAtt...

 

[freakyvillain]

I noticed this:

Does this means that moves like Icy Wind and Dark Pulse are not allowed to be in the final movepool? It's not like Kitsunoh's gonna dent anything with Base 55 SpAtt...

From the Attacking/Support Moves Discussion thread:

Competitive moves are moves that are viable for use in battle on a given pokemon. This categorization is applicable depending on the pokemon. Sometimes a move will be competitive on one pokemon and non-competitive for another.

Basically, what moves are defined as competitive change based on the Pokemon. So Thunderbolt on something with 55 base Special Attack is fair game.

 

[Vividsketch]

This as already been addressed. I made mention of it on the very first page. It has been discussed. Go ever the rest of the thread yourself.

 

[Veedrock]

Level up:

1. Tackle
1. Metal Sound
7. Astonish
10. Metal Claw
13. Yawn
15. Curse
21. Dig
25. Hypnosis
27. Dream Eater
32. Shadow Claw
40. Perish Song
44. Jump Kick
49. Iron Tail
56. Shadow Strike
71. Meteor Mash

Notable Attacks: Hypnosis, Shadow Strike*, Meteor Mash* (*explanation at the end)
Honorable Mention: Curse (ghost), Perish Song, Yawn, Jump Kick

Egg Moves (Ground)

Moonlight
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Thunder Fang
Double Hit
Haze
Memento
Bounce
Helping Hand
Shadow Sneak

Notable Attacks: Moonlight, Haze, Shadow Sneak
Honorable Mention: Memento, Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Fire Fang


TM/HM:

[SIZE=2]TM02 - Dragon Claw[/SIZE]
[B]TM05 - Roar[/B]
[B]TM06 - Toxic[/B]
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
[B]TM17 - Protect[/B]
TM18 - Rain Dance
[B]TM20 - Safeguard[/B]
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
[B]TM41 - Torment[/B]
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
[B]TM49 - Snatch[/B]
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
[B]TM61 - Will-o-wisp[/B]
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
[B]TM73 - Thunder Wave[/B]
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM81 - X-scissor
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
[B]TM89 - U-turn[/B]
[B]TM90 - Substitute[/B]
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

Notable support moves (plus status) are bolded.
Notable attack moves: X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Brick Break, Iron Tail, Dragon Claw
Notable exclusions: Earthquake*, Stealth Rock (*explanation at the end)

Tutor Moves:

Icy Wind
Knock Off
Omnious Wind
Sucker Punch
Trick
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Magnet Rise
Spite
Swift
Aqua Tail
Bounce
Earth Power
Endeavor
Iron Head
Mud-slap
Rollout
Superpower

Notable Attacks: Superpower, Sucker Punch, Trick, Aqua Tail
Honorable Mention: Endeavor, Iron Head, Knock Off, Magnet Rise


Don't just look at the notable and honorable mention moves; other moves do exist and can benefit Kitsunoh.

About my movelist: I gave this thing a broad movepool with many options. We voted to 'limit' it's stats to allow this, so I was not about to leave it with linear options. Sticking with flavor, I gave it elemental fangs, but excluded the punches (allowed Sucker Punch because it's not controversial). I know this will be approved by some but rejected by others. Bare in mind that there isn't much difference in them and aren't entirely important anyways. Excluded Stealth Rock because I don't want this to become a (suicide) lead, and left off Earthquake because that's pushing the envelope for beating everything to me. Fighting gives very identical coverage, and I included serveral of those to make up for that loss. Chose the Ground egg group mainly for Arbok (Fangs) and Umbreon (Moonlight). Smeargle came with that package, so I'm not complaining; no complicated illegal combos. I would've liked to allowed Gravity, but if that's going to be used then it may as well be teamed up with Fidgit. Numerous special options are available, but 55 Special Attack is pretty pathetic and won't get Kitsunoh very far. Paired with Metal Sound it could do some damage, but don't count on it.

Since these moves are seem controversial together, I'm going to expand on why I allowed Meteor Mash and Shadow Strike. Shadow Strike should be obvious; better STAB move (it's supposed to "force switches" too). That was the biggest point to a new move, so I allowed it. I allowed Meteor Mash mainly to alleviate for excluding EQ. It's a fantastic STAB move, but kept in check by Heatran and Magnezone since they can come in with a 4x resist, forcing a switch and making any attack boost hard to "abuse." Note that Kit still has Fighting moves at her disposal, giving very similar type coverage. I realize that it gives Kitsunoh sweeping potential, but by removing EQ it also keeps her in line by allowing more checks. A fair trade overall.



Any questions or comments, fire away.

 

[hydrolphin]

@Veedrock

You have ExtremeSpeed in your move set which is competetive on this pokemon and not listed on the allowed move list. Therefore it is not legal to have it on your set.

 

[ferron]

movepool ver.1.0

level up:

-[B]fire fang[/B] (h)
-[B]ice fang[/B] (h)
-[B]fake out[/B]
-scratch
-tail wag
5- confuse ray
11- metal claw
16- metal sound
22- knock off
27- [B]destiny bond[/B]
33- [B]iron head[/B]
38- crunch
43- psycho shift
49- [I]shadow strike[/I]
54- memento

the majority of this movepool is based off the list provided, so i still am slightly in the air about which moves will or will not see play from this list. i did not include thunder fang on this list b/c more than once bulky waters were listed as possible checks and counters.

tm list:

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - [B]Taunt[/B]
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - [B]Protect[/B]
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 - [B]Earthquake[/B]
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - [B]Torment[/B]
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - [B]Thief[/B]
TM49 - [B]Snatch[/B]
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM88 - [B]Pluck[/B]
TM89 - [B]U-turn[/B]
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

highlighted all the classic scout moves and moves that affect enemy items, plus EQ

tutor moves:

icy wind
vaccuum wave
fury cutter
swift
[B]superpower[/B]
[B]iron head[/B]
[B]aqua tail[/B]
earth power
last resort
heat wave

iron head (which i mentioned before would be the bread and butter), superpower and aqua tail for their power and coverage.

egg moves (ground, indeterminate):

baton pass (eevee, girafarig, mawile, drifblim, loppuny blaziken, etc.)
yawn (swalot, chimecho, magcargo, hippowdon, eevee, torkoal, etc.)
charm (ninetales, dugtrio, arcanine, mamoswine, camerupt, etc.)
body slam (not sure it matters due to tutor)
thief (not sure it matters due to tm)
shadow claw (not sure it matters due to tm)
moonlight (umbreon)
glare (dunsparce, sevipe, arbok)
perish song (misdreavus, gengar, absol)
grudge (dusknoir, gengar, mismagius, banette, spiritomb)

i would also like to add healing wish (chimecho, loppuny) to the egg list, but that depends on if it is considered competitive or not.

general comments:
i choose the fangs over the punches for non-aesthetic reasons. specificly, that it has a 10% flinch rate, which i find better for a scout.
i tried to make the total moves able to go in multiple directions. it should allow for scouting through threats, roaring, and status/stat-downs.
due to mag's comment before, i left in many special moves that could be used after a metal sound. it might be at best a gimmick, but if bastiodon can do it at 47 base SpA then this should be able to as well.


comments would be much appreciated and i will try to make changes based on them.

 

[Veedrock]

Thank you Hydrolphin. It was a last minute addition so I guess I overlooked that. I'll probably replace it with something else that is allowed and viable, and make sure I don't have any more contradictions.

 

[Kaxtar]

Just so you know, Ferron, because one of the Egg Groups you have on Kitsunoh is the Ground Egg Group, all combinations of moves are possible, because it can get them all from Smeargle.

 

[WaffleChan]

My movepool is slightly more limited then others but lets it do what it was created to do, scout.

Level up Moves
 
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Metal Claw
1. Scary Face
4. Lick
4. Scary Face
6. Screech
11. Shadow Claw
14. Glare
21. Moonlight
27. Shadow Sneak
30. Perish Song
39. Iron Head
48. U-Turn
56. Mist
61. Shadow Strike

The fang's are there though the Punches are in move tutor attacks, something I have no problem with. It could honestly just stand up, plus it's a ghost, it can form it's own hands if it really needs too.
I left out all attacking ice moves from it's movepool. Thunder Punch lets it hit Gyarados and other water pokes it's trying to outstall. Fire Punch gives in an option against other steel's but rarely anything overly threatening do to lack of Stab.

Mist, Glare Scary Face give it some interesting options especially since I left Thunder-Wave out of its set. Will 'o' Wisp and Toxic are enough for me.

Perish Song is a great scouting move as it will cause switches, screech can do the same thing at times and Moonlight gives it some recovery options. I wanted Crunch but I'm not sure whether it fits under banned moves or not.

 TM's
 
[B]TM06 - Toxic[/B]
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
[B]TM12 - Taunt[/B]
TM15 - Hyper Beam
[B]TM17 - Protect[/B]
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
[B]TM26 - Earthquake[/B]
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM54 - False Swipe
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
[B]TM61 - Will-o-wisp[/B]
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
[B]TM76 - Stealth Rock[/B]
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
[B]TM80 - Rock Slide[/B]
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM89 - U-turn
[B]TM90 - Substitute[/B]
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

My list is smaller than many others but I believe it gets the job done. It can scout opponents with Substitute and Protect. Torment, Will 'O' Wisp and Toxic let's it hit bulky Water before a switch and can mess up many pokes plans if used correctly.

For attacking moves, I wanted to hold off on most powerful moves, letting Kitsunoh hit things but not threaten too much as it is meant to be scouting not sweeping. EQ's and Drain Punch are for coverage and Rock Slide is it's best option for hitting dragons.

 Egg Moves
 
-Confuse Ray
-Grudge
-Haze
-Memento
-Fake Out
-Crush Claw
-Me First
-Baton Pass
-Charm
-Yawn

Egg Groups: Ground, Indeterminate

Nothing really too interesting here except Yawn which is a useful way of causing switches. Baton Pass can't really pass anything and Charm is just doing the same thing as Screech. Me First is a neat option for a scout but is outclassed by most anything.

Despite it all Grudge, Haze, Confuse Ray, Memento and Fake Out give Kitsunoh some interesting options if anyone's going for the surprise factor but would rarely see any use.

Move Tutors
 
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch
-Knock Off
-Ominous Wind
-Vacuum Wave
-Spite
-Mud Slap
-Heat Wave
-Ancient Power

Aah the controversial punches. I believe they belong, I didn't want to give it the option of Ice Punch, so that Kitsunoh fears Dragon's for the most part. Knock Off, is a vital move for a scout. Plus if Kitsunoh can some how knock off a Scizor's Choice Band and then Burn it well, it's rendered useless. (Not that anyone would let that happen.)

Spite's the only other even considerable option here, could screw with things if nothing else.

I was definately iffy on including Stealth Rock but included in anyways but I'm seriously including omitting it. Most importantly about my entire movepool is, No Trick, that move is everywhere these days and I don't believe Kitsunoh to need it to efficiently scout.

 

[armogohma]

Huh, so no one's using shadow force. It's a shame only so many competitive moves can go in the level-up list.

 

[IC3R.]

Prepare to be DAZZLED!!!!

I have decided to post a movepool for Kitsunoh...


================
LEVEL-UP MOVES

[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]H -- [I]Thunder Fang[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]H -- [I]Ice Fang[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]H -- [I]Fire Fang[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Lv1 -- Scratch[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv2 -- [I]Tickle[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Lv5 -- Astonish[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Lv9 -- Fury Swipes[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv14 -- [/SIZE][/COLOR][COLOR=black][SIZE=2][B]Glare[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Lv20 -- Metal Claw[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv27 -- [I]Magic Coat[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv35 -- [I]Shadow Punch[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2]Lv44 -- [I]Metal Sound[/I][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv54 -- [I]Scary Face[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2]Lv65 -- [B]Shadow Strike[/B][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv77 -- [I]Moonlight[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Lv90 -- [B]Meteor Mash[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR] 
 
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Move count: 15[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Kitsunoh gets three highly useful level-up moves, and several situational moves as well; Shadow Strike and Meteor Mash will easily be some of its most used moves thanks to reliable power and STAB. Glare can be used for crippling faster Pokemon permanently, and Magic Coat can help against crippler leads. Moonlight is a healing option outside of Rest, but is easily ruined due the multitude of Tyranitars running amuck. The Elemental Fangs are included, but are inferior to the Elemental Punches.

===============
TM & HM MOVES

[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM03 Water Pulse[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM05 [B]Roar[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM06 [I]Toxic[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM10 Hidden Power[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM11 Sunny Day[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM12 [B]Taunt[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM15 Hyper Beam[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM17 [B]Protect[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM18 [I]Rain Dance[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM21 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Frustration[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM23 [I]Iron Tail[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM27 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Return[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM28 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Dig[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM29 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Psychic[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM30 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Shadow Ball[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM31 [B]Brick Break[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM32 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Double Team[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM34[/COLOR][COLOR=black] Shock Wave[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM39 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Rock Tomb[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM40 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Aerial Ace[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM41 [I]Torment[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM42 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Facade[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM43 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Secret Power[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM44 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Rest[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM45 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Attract[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM46 [I]Thief [/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM48 [I]Skill Swap [/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM54 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]False Swipe[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM56 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Fling (not implemented)[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM58 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Endure[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM60 [B]Drain Punch [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM61 [B]Will-o-Wisp [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM62 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver Wind[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM65 [I]Shadow Claw [/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM66 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Payback[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM68 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Giga Impact[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM70 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Flash[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM78 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Captivate[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM79 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Dark Pulse[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM82 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Sleep Talk[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM83 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Natural Gift[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM85 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Dream Eater[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM87 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Swagger[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM89 [B]U-Turn[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]TM90 [B]Substitute [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM91 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Flash Cannon[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]TM92 [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Trick Room[/COLOR][/SIZE]
 
HM01 Cut
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash
HM08 Rock Climb
 
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Move count: 46[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Kitsunoh gets a wide variety of scouting and annoyance TMs; Substitute, Taunt, and U-Turn are the first to come to mind. Moves like Brick Break and Will-o-Wisp should prove useful as well, and Roar is always good to have waiting in your arsenal.

=============
TUTOR MOVES

[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Fury Cutter[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[B][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Thunder Punch[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Ice Punch[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Fire Punch[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[I][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Knock Off [/SIZE][/COLOR][/I]
[B][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Iron Head[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[I][COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Trick[/SIZE][/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2][I]Spite[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Uproar[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Mud-Slap[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Ominous Wind[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Icy Wind[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Signal Beam[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Helping Hand[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Snore[/SIZE][/COLOR]
 
[SIZE=2][COLOR=black]Move count: 15[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Kitsunoh gets some useful Tutor moves like the Elemental Punches and Iron Head, as well as the notable Trick and Knock Off. Spite can be used against a wallish Pokemon that has been Taunted, assuming it has one or two offensive moves (Swampert, Rotom-A).

===========
EGG MOVES
Groups: Monster / Indeterminate

[I][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][U]Monster Group:[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2][I]Bone Rush[/I] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=1](Cubone, Marowak)[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][SIZE=2]Me First -- [/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=1][COLOR=black](Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking, Lickitung, Lickilicky)[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[I][SIZE=2]Fake Out[/SIZE][/I][SIZE=2] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=1](Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastiose, Kangashkan)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Crush Claw --[/SIZE] [SIZE=1](Rhyhorn, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Treecko, Grovyle, Sceptile)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Yawn[/B] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=1](Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking, Snorlax)[/SIZE]
 
[I][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][U]Indeterminate Group:[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]
[SIZE=2][B][COLOR=black]Memento[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black] -- [/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=black][SIZE=1](Koffing, Weezing, Grimer, Muk)[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][I][COLOR=black]Shadow Sneak[/COLOR][/I][COLOR=black] -- [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black](Grimer, Muk, Misdreavus, Mismagius, Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Gallade, Shuppet,[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Banette, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Spiritomb)[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[I][SIZE=2]Grudge --[/SIZE] [/I][SIZE=1](Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Koffing, Weezing, Misdreavus, Mismagius, Ralts, [/SIZE][SIZE=1]Kirlia, Gardevoir, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Gallade, Shuppet, Banette, Duskull, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Spiritomb)[/SIZE]
 
[I][U][SIZE=2]Both groups:[/SIZE][/U][/I]
[SIZE=2]Foresight[/SIZE] -- [SIZE=1](Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Kangashkan, Lapras, Mudkip, Marshtomp, [/SIZE][SIZE=1]Swampert, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Shuppet, Banette, Duskull, Dusclops, Dusknoir)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B][COLOR=black]Perish Song[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black] -- [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black](Cubone, Marowak, Lapras, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Misdreavus, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Mismagius)[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[I][SIZE=2]Haze[/SIZE][/I] -- [SIZE=1](Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Grimer, Muk, Koffing, Muk, Gastly, Haunter, [/SIZE][SIZE=1]Gengar, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Drifloon, Drifblim)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][I][COLOR=black]Curse[/COLOR][/I][COLOR=black] -- [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black](Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Venusaur, Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking, Gastly, Haunter, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Gengar, Grimer, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Muk, Lickitung, Lickilicky, Koffing, Weezing, Rhyhorn, Rhydon, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Rhyperior, Lapras, Snorlax, Misdreavus, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Mismagius, Slugma, Magcargo, Larvitar, Pupitar, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Tyranitar, Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert, , Gulpin, Swalot, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Chimecho, Aron, Lairon, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Aggron, Tropius, Shuppet, Banette, Duskull, Dusclops, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Dusknoir, Turtwig, Grotle, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Torterra, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=black]Bastiodon, Shellos, Gastrodon, Bastiodon, Spiritomb) Holy crap X__X[/COLOR][/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=2]Move count: 12[/SIZE]

Unlike in most other submissions, I have placed Kitsunoh in the Monster and Interderminate egg groups. This allows for interesting combinations without being able to abuse Smeargle.

Memento, Perish Song, and Yawn are all Egg Moves that often encourage switching, or else something nasty happens. Curse is another good example, but sometimes the 50% health drop is undesirable. Fake Out breaks Focus Sashes, and Bone Rush can bust up Subs although the power is not all that reliable; it also checks Magnezone and Heatran since it able to 3-4HKO both (but it's a multi-hit move, so one use can potentially KO both). Shadow Sneak for priority, and Haze when Roar is too risky (like vs Metagross with some Attack boosts).

-----------------------
BOLDED attacks are the probably the most competitive moves for Kitsunoh, and should definitely be used.

ITALICIZED attacks are usable, but not truly gamebreaking.
------------------------

 

[Numbuh 214]

That's a great movepool. But, if you could put Assist somewhere in the Level-Up category, I would LOVE it. (Sorry for not bringing this up in Move Discussions, but I would use an Assist Kitsunoh solely for the comedy factor.)

 

[ferron]

i noticed some people have opted to give this poke both shadow strike and meteor mash. remember that shadow strike, while a possible exclussive move, is not required.
in fact, i wouldn't vote for a movepool that has both due since i can't agree with a scout having one STAB that drops enemies defenses and another STAB that can raise attack...

 

[IC3R.]

EDIT:: Ignore plz.