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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment
- Thread starter cyberzero
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It says "that is currently undervalued." If everyone is using Speed Boost Yanmega over Tinted Lens Yanmega, I fail to see how that isn't fucking undervalued enough. And if you guys are gonna come say, oh CS Tinted Yanmega works great on CaP, please go on and ladder more frequently, cause to be honest, I've been playing a bit lately and have not even ran into a Yanmega. Please don't bring theorymon into this, thanks.
Edit: "Simply put, Yanmega can use Tinted Lens and be fine, it just has a better option. Nowhere in the concept does it say anything about abilities that aren't used because the Pokemon with the ability have a better option."
Uhh...do you know what the definition of neglected is?
Edit: "Simply put, Yanmega can use Tinted Lens and be fine, it just has a better option. Nowhere in the concept does it say anything about abilities that aren't used because the Pokemon with the ability have a better option."
Uhh...do you know what the definition of neglected is?
Tinted Lens is highly underused and undervalued and should be just as viable as the rest. Besides, the argument that one other poke has it and "could" use it would eliminate quite a few of the list. Hustle for example, Togekiss could use it and be a mix-sweeper, but how often do you see that?
Edit:
Rank Name Usage Percent
45 | Yanmega | 68 | 3.42
That's the stats for yanmega in march and I can guarantee that the number of tinted lens users is deplorably low.
Edit:
Rank Name Usage Percent
45 | Yanmega | 68 | 3.42
That's the stats for yanmega in march and I can guarantee that the number of tinted lens users is deplorably low.
I'd say we follow EM's definition, since we voted for it. While it may not be ultra-specific, it gives a pretty definitive guideline that we can sort all abilities into. Yanmega CAN use Tinted Lens and make it work. It's undervalued, but not because the Pokemon that has it has a poor stat total or moveset.
Here's an analogy:
Say two much cheaper and efficient ways of making electricity have just been discovered. Both are a lot cheaper & efficient than the current form we have. However, the second one is slightly cheaper, and a bit more efficient. Obviously, the first one is going to end up neglected. Even though it is still usable- and not at all bad- it is neglected in comparison.
In this example, Tinted Lens is the first one.
The concept name is "Neglected Ability". The definition of Neglect is "to pay no or too little attention to".
It fits the qualifications of being neglected perfectly. I see no reason to make it unallowed, really.
Say two much cheaper and efficient ways of making electricity have just been discovered. Both are a lot cheaper & efficient than the current form we have. However, the second one is slightly cheaper, and a bit more efficient. Obviously, the first one is going to end up neglected. Even though it is still usable- and not at all bad- it is neglected in comparison.
In this example, Tinted Lens is the first one.
The concept name is "Neglected Ability". The definition of Neglect is "to pay no or too little attention to".
It fits the qualifications of being neglected perfectly. I see no reason to make it unallowed, really.
I don't know what you're talking about it does fit the description. It could be useful, but is undervalued, seems like and exact match to me. Useful as in it damages a fuckload of stuff, undervalued as in it's NOT USED. Since I guess I haven't made that clear enough for you.
| Yanmega | Ability | Tinted Lens | 26.3 |
One quarter. It's really not as rare as you're trying to convince me that it is.
Anyway, it looks like I'm losing this argument. While Tinted Lens SpecsMega is highly effective in CAP, it doesn't seem to be that common.
One quarter. It's really not as rare as you're trying to convince me that it is.
Anyway, it looks like I'm losing this argument. While Tinted Lens SpecsMega is highly effective in CAP, it doesn't seem to be that common.
Uhh 1/4 is rare as hell, look at the usage Yanmega gets, and then when only 1/4 of them have that ability...that's not common at all dude. If it's not common, on a rarely seen pokemon, that means it's not used much. If it's not used much it's neglected. Just like I said on IRC. Funny how logic works out. Thanks have a nice night.
Maybe I'm being too literal about the concept here, but it pretty specifically talks about abilities that are undervalued because the Pokemon that have them are, frankly, bad; they don't have the stats or moveset to use them effectively. Is Speed Boost better than Tinted Lens? No doubt. Is Tinted Lens undervalued and neglected in its slot? I agree completely. It just doesn't fit the concept, because, however rare it may be, Yanmega CAN use Tinted Lens, and does have the stats and moveset to make it work.
Yeah, roughly one quarter of 3.42. Not a big number...0.89946 to be exact (that's using the exact 26.3)
Hm.... I guess I can understand your standpoint...
I guess also giving it Tinted Lens is also slightly taking away from the potential some even more neglected abilities may have with this concept. Some of the abilities being drafted here may never have another chance to shine, due to being overshadowed by some of the more-often used abilities... Not exactly the same thing with Tinted Lens though.
Eh, I'm neutral on Tinted Lens, I guess.
Woah man, it's almost seen 1%. I was wrong guys, not neglected...oh wait. I just don't see how you can't see how it's not neglected. 1 Pokemon, can use it "well" and it doesn't even used it. It's used 1% of the time...that's 99% of the time it's not used. That's basically the definition of neglected.
It's almost sad because calling it 1% is us giving it the benefit of the doubt and rounding up, it's not even 1%.
If that's your point, shouldn't we remove hustle? Togekiss gets it, you never see it use it but...it COULD (theres even a build on this site that uses it). Aerodactyl COULD use rockhead, lets remove that too. Poison Point too, Roserade COULD use it...should I go on?
Dude, I'm not arguing the definition of neglected, quit driving a point I've already said I agree with. I'm arguing that it doesn't fall within the parameters set by the concept, which rather bluntly states that the ability in question is neglected because the Pokemon is bad.
You can e-sarcasm me all you want, but if you're not going to address the point I'm putting out, why are you even arguing with me?
You can e-sarcasm me all you want, but if you're not going to address the point I'm putting out, why are you even arguing with me?
Personally? I agree. If we're going to vote for a concept, and then immediately ignore what it directly says, why vote for it? Those abilities should be ignored in favor of abilities that fall under the boundaries the concept set, and are even more neglected in that manner.
Besides, Pyroak already has Rock Head.
You make it sounds as if that's the only way for it to fall under the ability, when it cleary doesn't. It says "undervalued" as I stated earlier, and proved was true. I'm gonna keep driving the point, until you decide to read what I'm writing, and realize that what I proved is that it IS underused and neglected..which falls under what EM stated as the "definition" of the ability.
Also, the problem with your point is that it's trying to say lets choose abilities we never see. All of us have the potential to see any of these said abilities used, even if it's on a UU poke that's pretty bad. The point of this is to give the ability to a pokemon that will USE it to it's potential.
Those abilities are neglected, although honestly, there are probably a bunch of abilities that will never see the light of day in competitive battling because they are attached to crappy Pokemon.
We COULD use an ability like Hustle or Tinted Lens, although they could probably easily be drafted up on another CAP.
Without this Concept, some of these abilities may never shine.
I think we should take advantage of that and find the most obscure ability that works well on the Pokemon that we can manage.
I don't see where this interpretation of EM's concept is coming from. It outright gives the reasons for what he considers to be a neglected ability; "...isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work."Elevator Music said:
Until EM or cyberzero tells me otherwise, I'm going to go with what the concept says. It really isn't open to interpretation there. No "or other reasons which might make it neglected;" it just says "let's use abilities that are neglected for these reasons."
People can and will when it comes down to the designing. Personally, I'd love to see a lot of them get used too, and so would a ton of others, that's the whole reason people voted for it. I'm just trying to put tinted lens on the allowed list, as many people will be quickly using that as a reference of what they can use, which will undoubtedly affect some designs.
Fine, I agree to wait to hear from them. I still say I'm right though ;)
Okay...I don't see where you're going with this, you say the ability is indeed neglected, but then go onto say it shouldn't be used? Kind of a contradiction if you ask me.
EDIT: Okay, sorry but do you read Lord Gloom? or are you blatantly skipping the part where is says, "underavalued," to make your argument look that much stronger. You've completely disregarded my previous messages regarding to this wild accusation, and it's getting kind of annoying replying when you just blow of what I say.
EDIT: Okay, sorry but do you read Lord Gloom? or are you blatantly skipping the part where is says, "underavalued," to make your argument look that much stronger. You've completely disregarded my previous messages regarding to this wild accusation, and it's getting kind of annoying replying when you just blow of what I say.
I'm not saying Tinted Lens isn't neglected, it most certainly is quite neglected, but there are other abilities that are even more neglected that Tinted Lens that fit the concept description better.
I honestly think we should try to go for one of those abilities on a higher priority level than those like Tinted Lens. This concept may be one of their only chances to shine in the metagame, and we should take it to it's fullest advantage.
We're really arguing about opinions now.
You can always use 2 abilities dude, if the pokemon is made well enough to fill the role it should, then both abilities could be used and used commonly enough. That's theorymoning though, and for a different day and thread. Sorry for getting off topic.
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