CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 4 - Style Bias Discussion

[cyberzero]

Normally, we don't have a Style Bias Discussion, but in this unique case, we'll need to consider which abilities would be available to choose from if a certain Style Bias would win. Our Pokemon has been decided to be Electric/Dragon.
The concept:

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

The Allowed abilities as of now are:

Aftermath
Air Lock/Cloud Nine
Anticipation
Chlorophyll
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Damp
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Gluttony
Hustle
Iron Fist
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale
Mold Breaker
Poison Point
Quick Feet
Reckless
Rock Head
Rough Skin
Shield Dust
Skill Link
Solar Power
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Tangled Feet
Thick Fat
Tinted Lens
Trace
Unburden

There are four possible Style Biases. They are:

• Offensive: 20 to Infinity
• Somewhat Offensive: 0 to 20
• Somewhat Defensive: -20 to 0
• Defensive: -20 to -Infinity

Now, we have to categorize the abilities to see which abilities would be preferred for which bias. They can belong to more than one bias.

Example: An offensive ability like Download would be preferred on an Offensive or Somewhat Offensive biased Pokemon rather than a Defensive or Somewhat Defensive Pokemon.
A defensive ability like Trace would be preferred on a Defensive or Somewhat Defensive Pokemon. It's up to you guys to decide what goes in what, so discuss away! This will help decide what Bias we should choose when the Style Bias Poll starts!

The following lists will be established as the discussion goes on.

Offensive: 20 to Infinity
Aftermath
Air Lock
Chlorophyll
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Gluttony
Hustle
Iron Fist
Leaf Guard
Mold Breaker
Quick Feet
Reckless
Rock Head
Shield Dust
Skill Link
Solar Power
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Tangled Feet
Tinted Lens
Trace
Unburden

Somewhat Offensive: 0 to 20
Air Lock
Aftermath
Anticipation
Chlorophyll
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Gluttony
Leaf Guard
Mold Breaker
Quick Feet
Shield Dust
Suction Cups
Skill Link
Solar Power
Soundproof
Static
Synchronize
Tangled Feet
Thick Fat
Trace
Tinted Lens
Unburden

Somewhat Defensive: -20 to 0
Air Lock
Aftermath
Anticipation
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Damp
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale
Poison Point
Rough Skin
Shield Dust
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Thick Fat
Trace

Defensive: -20 to -Infinity
Aftermath
Air Lock
Anticipation
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Damp
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale
Rough Skin
Shield Dust
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Thick Fat
Trace

 

[Shade of Elysia]

Well, Iron Fist, Tinted Lens and Skill Link are obviously Offensive, just to get that out of the way.

EDIT: Mold Breaker should be Somewhat Offensive since it has support capabilities.

 

[Zystral]

I'm definite in that Tinted Lens, Rock Head, Iron Fist, Hustle and Skill Link, should be Offensive.
Mold Breaker could be Somewhat Offensive, as something such as TWave could be used on Jolteon, if I'm right?

 

[Shade of Elysia]

Mold Breaker could be Somewhat Offensive, as something such as TWave could be used on Jolteon, if I'm right?

Ah yes, I forgot about that. I agree with Mold Breaker in Somewhat Offensive, since it has support capabilities.

I'd like Somewhat defensive.

This way we would effectively create something completely new (at least to the Dragon type) and we would ward off the chance of creating another standard Outrage/Draco Meteor sweeper.

Especially if we go the special route, it would be a pretty cool Zapdos counter and a check to many threats, like bulky waters.

Aren't we figuring out which ability goes where?

 

[zarator]

Aren't we figuring out which ability goes where?

Yeah, in fact I deleted my post lol

 

[Lostmyth]

I say somewhat defensive should have the abilities cloud nine or rough skin seeing how it in a way protects the pokemon but doesn't focus all defending.

 

[blakcharz77]

Thick Fat, Battle Armor/Shell Armor, and Quickfeet should be defensive.
Rough Skin, Poison Point, Static,and Soundproof should be somewhat defensive.

Edit: maybe all defensive? just throwin out ideas

 

[little gk]

I say somewhat defensive should have the abilities cloud nine or rough skin seeing how it in a way protects the pokemon but doesn't focus all defending.

How does rough skin protect the pokemon?

 

[Sc4rfCh0mp]

I'm going to post all of the Allowed Abilities that I feel can be used effectively, and place what style I think they belong in.

Aftermath- Aftermath can be on a Defensive/Somewhat Defensive Pokemon, since it will deal damage after the Pokemon with the ability faints. Sometimes, this helps with the Pokemon that is switching in to get a KO.

Air Lock/Cloud Nine- This should also be on a Somewhat Defensive/Defensive Pokemon, since it provides a check to weather teams.

Battle Armor- Any style would welcome it, since it blocks critical hits, which can do things from ruining sweeps to breaking stalls.

Chlorophyll- An Offensive Pokemon would enjoy this, because it provides a boost of Speed.

Compoundeyes- An Offensive or Somewhat Offensive Pokemon would like this ability. Raising accuracy is always a plus, especially if a Pokemon has low accuracy moves.

Damp- Somewhat Defensive or Defensive. This can help block those Explosions that are usually used to get through a Pokemon that is stalling a team.

Early Bird- Getting out of sleep early is a great bonus to any style.

Effect Spore- Extra status? Any style would love that.

Gluttony- Mainly an Offensive Pokemon. This would make Belly Drum/Salac Berry combos a lot more common.

Iron Fist- Offensive or Somewhat Offensive, since it increases power.

Leaf Guard- Any Style would enjoy this, since any type would love to not have to worry about status crippling them.

Magic Guard- Any Style would also love this, especially since it blocks Spikes, Status, etc.

Marvel Scale- A Defensive or Somewhat Defensive Pokemon would love to have its Defense raised, since it helps to stall out a team.

Mold Breaker- Offensive or Somewhat Offensive, since it blocks out abilities like Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, etc. which is helpful when facing Jolteon and Vaporeon.

Quick Feet- Offensive. As demonstrated by Ursaring in the NU tier, Quick Feet helps to turn a Pokemon into an offensive beast.

Rock Head- Offensive, since it allows a Pokemon to sweep longer if it uses recoil moves like Double-Edge or Volt Tackle.

Rough Skin- Any Style. This builds up damage on Pokemon who attack the Ability holder, which weakens the attacker down to a point where it can be KOed.

Shield Dust- Any Style would love to not be hit by hax.

Skill Link- Offensive. It allows for maximum power of multiple-attacking moves.

Soundproof- Defensive, Somewhat Defensive, or Somewhat Offensive. It blocks Roar, which most Pokemon bar Hariyama and Skarmory use for Phazing.

Static- Any Style would love to cripple a Pokemon with Paralysis.

Suction Cups- Offensive or somewhat Offensive. This allows set-up sweepers to not be obliterated by Phazing.

Synchronize- Any Style hates status, and would love to pass it on to another Pokemon.

Tangled Feet- Offensive, mainly because of Outrage, which CAP8 is most likely going to get. It allows for an up of Evasion, which may create another Garchomp, but a limited version of it.

Thick Fat- Defensive or Somewhat Defensive. This adds resistances to Fire and Ice Types, and CAP8 is weak to Ice.

Tinted Lens- Offensive. This allows a Pokemon to attack without restraint or prediction.

Trace- Defensive or Somewhat Defensive. Trace helps serve as counters to Pokemon with Intimidate or an Absorbing Ability.

Unburden- Offensive, since it helps to boost Speed when an Item is lost (helping against those pesky Knock Off users.)

 

[Umbreon Dan]

No, Rough Skin doesn't work on Offensive Pokemon. The reason Sharpedo doesn't see much use is because it can't take a hit. If it could, Rough Skin would actually be a highly useful ability.

Imagine something like Swampert with Rough Skin. Nice, isn't it? It's definitely Defensive or Somewhat Defensive.

 

[blakcharz77]

Any status giving ability should be defensive, because the pokemon needs to be able to take a hit and still use its ability effectively.

 

[Tint]

Is there just going to be a record kept of the bias's that we place the abilities in?
I'm kind of confused about why we are all just posting what we think.
Can someone clear this up for me?

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Is there just going to be a record kept of the bias's that we place the abilities in?
I'm kind of confused about why we are all just posting what we think.
Can someone clear this up for me?

Because the Style Bias Poll will be up shortly, and Cyber would like to know which abilities should be Unallowed if Defensive wins and which should be Unallowed if Offensive wins.

 

[Tint]

Because the Style Bias Poll will be up shortly, and Cyber would like to know which abilities should be Unallowed when one style wins and which should be Unallwed if the other wins.

Okay, thanks.

 

[latinoheat]

Wouldn't it be better to do ability first

 

[joshe]

For some reason I'm going with Air Lock/Cloud Nine. It'll help against weather teams, and it just seems to fit the typing, so yeah. oh and

• Offensive: 20 to Infinity
• Somewhat Offensive: 0 to 20

Those 2 should be front runners IMO. I'm going with a 17 or higher.

 

[Veedrock]

I'm curious why people are saying "this involves getting hit, defensive." I actually think it should be the opposite (excluding Rough Skin, which sucks). Why? Let's look at Effect Spore:

Has a 30% chance of inducing paralysis, poison, or sleep with uniform probability on an enemy that connects with a contact move. If the attack does no damage, Effect Spore does not activate.

Now, defensive pokemon are bitch enough to take down on their own. It doesn't help that I'm struggling to get past this wall, but now I have to risk getting a crippling status effect. Doesn't help that said pokemon can likely survive more than one assault, meaning it can cripple more than just one member of a team. It's over the top capabilities like this that make me say "nay" to things like this on defensive pokemon.

Wouldn't it be better to do ability first

The ability poll is not next on the agenda, and the order of events is not going to change.

 

[Tint]

For some reason I'm going with Air Lock/Cloud Nine. It'll help against weather teams, and it just seems to fit the typing, so yeah.

I'm pretty sure this isn't voting, or discussing what abilities this should get at all.

I think Suction Cups can be all of the biases. Offensive Stat-Uppers will enjoy it, and Defensive Walls will enjoy staying power. I kind of want someone else's opinion though

 

[art-of-tennis]

I believe unburden would work very well for an offensive pokemon, due to the sheer fact that it's speed would double giving it a non-weather, free boost.

 

[Raj]

I don't understand why Quick Feet would be Defensive... (post 7)

Flower Gift = Equally offensive as defensive, so uh.. where would that go?

 

[cyberzero]

Flower Gift = Equally offensive as defensive, so uh.. where would that go?

They can belong in as many categories as they fit in, so it would probably be best to allow that on all of the lists.

 

[blakcharz77]

Aftermath-Defensive->Somewhat Def.
Air Lock/Cloud Nine-Any (seeing as it only deals with weather)
Anticipation- Any (def. and off. could use this)
Battle Armor/Shell Armor-Any (critical hit benefits all)
Chlorophyll-Offensive (speed basically = offense)
Color Change-Any?
Compoundeyes-Offensive (accuracy basically = offense)
Damp-Defensive (blocking explosion/SD is obviously good for defense)
Early Bird-Any (wakin from sleep fast could be off or def)
Effect Spore-Defensive->Somewhat Def. (needs to take a hit)
Flower Gift-Any (could work with defensive or offensive)
Gluttony-Any? (heals the pokemon sooner than usual...)
Hustle-Offensive (ups attack)
Iron Fist-Offensive (ups power of punching moves)
Leaf Guard-Any?
Magic Guard-Defensive (blocks a lot of different effects/attacks)
Marvel Scale-Defensive (boosts def.)
Mold Breaker-Offensive->Somewhat Off. (reasons stated before)
Poison Point-Defensive->Somewhat Def. (needs to take a hit)
Quick Feet- Offensive (speed basically = offense)
Reckless- Offensive (boosts power of recoil moves)
Rock Head- Offensive (recoil moves deal no damage back)
Rough Skin- Defensive->Somewhat Def. (needs to take a hit)
Shield Dust-Any?
Skill Link-Offensive (Off. would love to hit max # of hits every time)
Solar Power-Offensive (raises attack)
Soundproof-Any (blocking sound could be for off. or def. Poke)
Static- Defensive->Somewhat Def. (needs to take a hit)
Suction Cups-Any (could keep off. in or keep def. wall in)
Synchronize-Any (off. and def. could use)
Tangled Feet-Offensive
Thick Fat-Defensive (helps block fire or ice)
Tinted Lens-Offensive (lets a 1/2 power move do normal damage)
Trace-Any?
Unburden-Offensive (again: speed basically = offense)

PS: any ability with a “?” means I cannot decide what to place it in.

 

[Grimoire]

Aftermath - Any basis would work as long as it has decent HP. After all any pokemon can eventually die. Though something with Blissey/Wailord like HP would be downright nasty with this ability. I would probably put it on something with somewhat offensive basis with paper defenses and High HP. Almost sounds like I am a Wailord with more speed.

Air Lock/Cloud Nine - Both of these work well with any basis. However, I would suspect it working best with a somewhat defensive basis to allow it to weather a few more attacks and just status up the opponents(Thunder wave against a rain-dance Kingra sweep team for example... and somewhat defensive, with electric type, and this ability would probably halt Wallrein pretty well)

Battle Armor - Really helps with any pokemon, but it can be particularly useful for Walls I would think. I personally think this is one of the less interesting abilities to take a play on, but meh.

Chlorophyll - Doubling speed is obviously sweep setup. Somewhat offensive to Offenisve would probably make the best use of it. Though I could see something with no bias(like Kingdra) making good use of it.

Color Change - Something that can take a hit or two. In other words not straight offensive.

Compoundeyes - Who doesn't want increased accuracy? Butterfree can show you just how bad it can be to have powders and compound eyes(no if only Butterfree had the stats to use it!). Pratically a spore. Anyways a crippling pokemon(powders, will-o-wisp, etc) would really like this ability.

Damp - Defensive and somewhat defensive for sure!

Early Bird - Anyone wants to get out of sleep early.

Effect Spore - Handy anywhewre, but would be a real boon to a defenisve/somewhat defensive poke.

Flower Gift - Special Wall or Physical Sweeper, or perhaps both! Since you need setup time I wouldn't put it on a straight Offensive. I would stick to the Somewhats.

Gluttony - Sweeper Go! Offensive and somewhat offensive seem clear picks here.

Iron Fist - It is an offensive ability for sure. Somewhat Offensive or straight Offensive. Though I could see it being some use on Somewhat Defensive or Defensive. Not really an ability I would give to an Electric dragon though.

Leaf Guard - Needs setup and works to help prevent statuses. Seems like a Somewhat Defensive or Defensive trait to me. Though with Sun support it would be nice for any pokemon.

Magic Guard - Who wouldn't want magic guard? I am sure defensive pokemon would like it even more.

Marvel Scale - The Somewhats would be in love with this trait. So would straight Defensive. Not sure what Offensive would do with it.

Mold Breaker - Lovable for just about anyone!

Poison Point - Meh. I am not fond of Poison Point. Defensive would proably do best.

Quick Feet - A scary sweeper. Some kind of Offensive.

Reckless - Offensive. The ability kinda conflicts with defensive pokes. Somewhat offensive would also work I think.

Rough Skin - Defensive pokes. Imagine something like Gliscor having this!

Shell Armor - Same as battle armor

Shield Dust - Anyone would like this! No flinching for being slow and the ilk would be loved!

Skill Link - Offensive I would think.

Solar Power - Something with Good speed and sweeping abilities. Somewhat Offensive or Offensive. Probably Offensive.

Soundproof/Suction Cups - Anyone who sets up would love this.

Static - Who wouldn't want to paralyze people!

Tangled Feet - Would be handy on an offensive pokemon with self confusing moves.

Thick Fat - Defensive pokes are nice. Particularly since dragons have an ice weak and a fire resist.

Tinted Lens - Anyone would like this, but there are probably better abilities for straight defensive pokes.

Unburden - A berry sweeper is what I see when I think of this!




Cloud Nine/Airlock, Aftermath and Thick Fat are probably my personal favorites!

 

[Deck Knight]

Now, defensive pokemon are bitch enough to take down on their own. It doesn't help that I'm struggling to get past this wall, but now I have to risk getting a crippling status effect. Doesn't help that said pokemon can likely survive more than one assault, meaning it can cripple more than just one member of a team. It's over the top capabilities like this that make me say "nay" to things like this on defensive pokemon.

I think you mean "it doesn't help that my opponent" is struggling to get past this wall, my opponent is risking a crippling status effect. Static is neglected primarily because even its most defensive user has effective 90/75 Defenses against contact attacks. Ampharos as it turns out has "Good" BSR but its Physical Tankiness sits at Rank 0: Average. In fact, its ODB is actually -1.6, no bias. Thus why Ampharos is not showing up everywhere in an environment that spams unSTAB U-Turns and STAB Bullet Punches.

It seems that just like in CAP7, you are far, far more interested in making the CAP hampered rather than effective at testing the metagame. If something is "too powerful" then we can change it, like Syclant and Revenankh. We currently seem to have no mechanism to address CAPs that faill because we'd rather not admit we left out crucial moves or made its stats too weak.

Static is thus best suited to Somewhat Defensive or Defensive. It has already been on offensive pokemon and failed to bring them notoriety because of it.

Shield Dust can go on any style. Effective immunity to freeze, flinch, and burn (outside Will-O-Wisp) is useful on any pokemon.

 

[Veedrock]

I think you mean "it doesn't help that my opponent" is struggling to get past this wall, my opponent is risking a crippling status effect.

When I think of a pokemon I think playing against it. If you're playing with it, there's going to be a bias of "oh hey, this thing makes my team hella good." So I guess we think oppositely, so arguing it won't get very far.

It seems that just like in CAP7, you are far, far more interested in making the CAP hampered rather than effective at testing the metagame.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. The only thing I was against on Kitsunoh was Earthquake (I wanted ground for electric immunity, not to "hamper" CAP7). But, I will give you the latter (unquoted) part, so I'll be a little less cautious (still don't understand what you're getting at with Kitsunoh though).