DP Weavile .

[JabbaTheGriffin]

this is a splendid ipl creation that he asked me to write an analysis up for. and since i'm in an analysis writing mood to prove that i deserve that nice little water drop under my name, i obliged.

yes i have tried this set out myself, and yes it worked amazingly. the only bad thing i can say about it is that it requires a bit too much prediction for my tastes.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/weavile

[SET]
name: Anti-Lead Weavile
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Counter
move 4: Night Slash / Ice Punch
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With the advent of the Focus Sash suicide lead that focuses on nothing but laying down Stealth Rock and preventing the opponent from doing the same, Weavile stands out as one of the few Pokemon that can combat this trend. Fake Out, the most important move in the set, allows you to cancel out Focus Sashes on the likes of Aerodactyl, Azelf and Deoxys-S. Night Slash is the preferred second attack since it allows you to finish off Azelf and Deoxys-S. However, if you are more concerned about Aerodactyl, Ice Punch is always an option.</p>

<p>The other half of the set, Taunt and Counter, lets Weavile deal with slower, bulkier Pokemon such as Bronzong. Bronzong will generally not view an opposing Weavile as a threat and opt to either set up Stealth Rock or put Weavile to sleep. After Taunt forces them to attack, you can Counter their Gyro Ball back for an OHKO. This strategy also works on lead Gyarados who will often attempt to Dragon Dance right off the bat. Situations like these may often require a good deal of prediction, but if you predict right, the payoff is often enormous.</p>

 

[junior]

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With the advent of the Focus Sash suicide lead that focuses on nothing but laying down Stealth Rock and preventing the opponent from doing the same, Weavile stands out as one of the few Pokemon that can combat this trend. Fake Out, the most important move in the set, allows you to cancel out Focus Sashes on the likes of Aerodactyl, Azelf and Deoxys-S. Night Slash is the preferred second move since it allows you to finish off Azelf and Deoxys-S. However, if you are more concerned about Aerodactyl, Ice Punch is always an option.</p>

<p>The other half of the set, Taunt and Counter, lets Weavile deal with slower, bulkier Pokemon such as Bronzong. Bronzong will generally not view an opposing Weavile as a threat and opt to either set up Stealth Rock or put Weavile to sleep. After Taunt forces them to attack, you can Counter their Gyro Ball back for an OHKO. This strategy also works on lead Gyarados who will often attempt to Dragon Dance right off the bat. Situations like these may often require a good deal of prediction, but if you predict right, the payoff is often enormous.</p>

effffff too perfect. Only 2, maybe not even, 'nitpicks'.

This set looks awesome actually. At first it looked gimmicky but after reading he descriptions, it looks like it could work!

 

[Caelum]

I've played this lead on IPL's team before and it seems decent enough, although, the suicide taunt lead fade is dying down a bit in the last few days. I can still see it being effective generally but I might wait a week to see if it's effective with the suicide lead trend dying down (unless everyone else thinks it isn't, it appears that way to me anyway).

Edit: ^ Mostly playing Devils Advocate, seems like a good set.

 

[gengod]

Sounds pretty good, although I have a two things I think you might want to mention. Pursuit is actually a pretty viable option in your last slot as it allows you take out Gengar and Azelf leads even if they do flee and can really screw with Focus Sashed variants.

The other thing you might want to mention that even with Fake Out Weavile still won't be able to prevent Aerodactyl or Deoxys from laying Stealth Rock due to their higher speed making Weavile unable to taunt them.

 

[Phuquoph]

[SET]
name: Anti-Lead Weavile
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Counter
move 4: Night Slash / Ice Punch
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With the advent of the Focus Sash suicide lead that focuses on nothing but laying down Stealth Rock and preventing the opponent from doing the same, Weavile stands out as one of the few Pokemon that can combat this trend. Fake Out, the most important move in the set, allows you to cancel out Focus Sashes on the likes of Aerodactyl, Azelf and Deoxys-S. Night Slash is the preferred second attack since it allows you to finish off Azelf and Deoxys-S. However, if you are more concerned about Aerodactyl, Ice Punch is always an option.</p>

<p>The other half of the set, Taunt and Counter, lets Weavile deal with slower, bulkier Pokemon such as Bronzong. Bronzong will generally not view an opposing Weavile as a threat and opt to either set up Stealth Rock or put Weavile to sleep. After Taunt forces them to attack, you can Counter their Gyro Ball back for a OHKO. This strategy also works on lead Gyarados who will often attempt to Dragon Dance right off the bat. Situations like these may often require a good deal of prediction, but if you predict right, the payoff is often enormous.</p>

Changes in bold.

I've never seen this in action, but it looks like it could be incredibly useful.

 

[darkie]

a OHKO.

chaos says

"an OHKO"

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

aaaah don't blame me phuquoph was the one who told me to change it!

(also i'll get to the bigger edits in this and my other thread tomorrow - maniac's suggestions and phuq's alternate ev spread for missy)

 

[Juuka]

I've seen Ice Shard on this type of Weavile lead, just for Aerodactyl and Deoxys-S. Aerodactyl outspeeds it, so Ice Shard has better use in my opinion. It could have mention on the last slot or somewhere in the set comments, but it's definitely worth mentioning. It's also pretty useful in general.

 

[Tortured_Soul]

Yes, it is illegal. Probably the reason it wasn't mentioned somewhere on the analysis.

 

[Syberia]

Weavile can breed with Smeargle. It is not an illegal combination.

 

[User 12783]

Syberia is correct, Smeargle can breed with Weavile so it is not an illegal combination, so I suggest you do add Pursuit in the set, or at least the set comments. Nice job on the analysis, I couldn't even find one nitpick since Junior listed it.

 

[Jimbo]

Seems like an incredibly useful set with the abundance of suicide leads nowadays, really should be in the analysis.

Also couldn't find any nitpicks.

 

[lilyhollow]

This strategy also works on lead Gyarados who will often attempt to Dragon Dance right off the bat. Situations like these may often require a good deal of prediction, but if you predict right, the payoff is often enormous.

this might be pointless nitpicking but three "often's" in two sentences does not sit right with me.

 

[Kagster123]

Just wondering but would changing the nature to Hasty have any merit? Well, Weavile's defence is weak anyway so I guess it isn't necessary, and I guess your only going to use these to reflect gyro balls and close combats which OHKO him whether Hasty or Jolly.

 

[Stellar]

After watching a few of IPL's battles, this thing works wonders. Every battle it took out 2 or 3 of the opponent's Pokemon.

It also didn't hurt that he encountered 5 Azelf leads in a row.

Supporting this set and recommending it be added to the analysis.

 

[ViVi]

Meh, not that I really care, but I bred and put one of these in my trading thread on wifi with the same exact set(Lonely>Hasty though).

With Lonely, you can knock off the following Pokemon with Fake Out+Ice Shard:
Dugtrio, Garchomp, Salamence(w/out Intimidate), Dragonite, Sceptile, Swellow and Ninjask. I would imagine theres more but I didnt bother checking yet.

 

[gengod]

Meh, not that I really care, but I bred and put one of these in my trading thread on wifi with the same exact set(Lonely>Hasty though).

With Lonely, you can knock off the following Pokemon with Fake Out+Ice Shard:
Dugtrio, Garchomp, Salamence(w/out Intimidate), Dragonite, Sceptile, Swellow and Ninjask. I would imagine theres more but I didnt bother checking yet.

However, with a Lonely nature you will be outsped by the same Lead Azelfs and Gengars you actually aim to stop.

 

[ViVi]

The thought is that they will try to switch out because they assume they'll be outsped, only to get hit with Pursuit, and even if they dont switch it isnt as if Weavile wouldnt be able to still OHKO them, thanks to Focus Sash. Focus Sash is usefull far beyond Counter just pairing it with counter.

The Negatives of Lonely is not outspeeding Azelf/Gengar, which could be completely irrelavent if they attempt switching out. The positives being you can deal with many other Pokemon you otherwise could'nt

 

[Thunderpup]

I agree with ViVi, azelf and gengar will generally refuse to stay in to an inevitable defeat, even scarfed variants run the risk of focus sash + ice shard. The extra power seems like it could definitely be useful in taking down the dragons, or at least putting bigger dents in them.

However, if this becomes part of the analysis, it's possible that gengar and azelf leads may become bolder and stay in more often. I do think lonely deserves consideration.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

The thought is that they will try to switch out because they assume they'll be outsped, only to get hit with Pursuit, and even if they dont switch it isnt as if Weavile wouldnt be able to still OHKO them, thanks to Focus Sash. Focus Sash is usefull far beyond Counter just pairing it with counter.

The Negatives of Lonely is not outspeeding Azelf/Gengar, which could be completely irrelavent if they attempt switching out. The positives being you can deal with many other Pokemon you otherwise could'nt

The biggest problem I have with this is that the set clearly isn't meant to deal with everything, just with those specific common leads while still providing sash/counter ability. If you can't outspeed Gengar and Azelf there is literally no point to using this set. This set isn't meant to cause damage, its meant to stop your opponent from causing damage. If that Gengar or Azelf lead switches out without SRing or sleeping anything, this Weavile has done its job successfully.

Oh, and I also feel that Hasty should be the main option as a nature. It should probably be the only option now that I think about it.

Another suggestion I have is maybe dropping some of those Atk EVs and adding them to HP to increase the damage dealt by Counter. I really doubt that Weavile needs 252 Atk to OHKO Azelf/Gengar/Deoxys and I only see that extra damage helping you out in the long run.

 

[Great Sage]

Oh, and I also feel that Hasty should be the main option as a nature. It should probably be the only option now that I think about it.

It's already onsite with Hasty as the only nature.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Even though I didn't know that, my point was more directed to the people who were still arguing in favor of Lonely/any other nature. I felt like I needed to address that in this thread because a few people have come out in support of it and nobody has really explained the obvious drawbacks to those natures completely. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[cim]

Just wanted to chime in that this set is fucking brilliant. That's all.

Ice Shard for Aerodactyl? After all, he's faster.

 

[yoshi!]

I think the last sentence should read like this :

This strategy also works on lead Gyarados, who will often attempt to Dragon Dance right off the bat. Situations like these usually require a good deal of prediction, but, if you predict right, the payoff can be enormous.

Changes in bold.

 

[ViVi]

The biggest problem I have with this is that the set clearly isn't meant to deal with everything, just with those specific common leads while still providing sash/counter ability. If you can't outspeed Gengar and Azelf there is literally no point to using this set. This set isn't meant to cause damage, its meant to stop your opponent from causing damage. If that Gengar or Azelf lead switches out without SRing or sleeping anything, this Weavile has done its job successfully.

Oh, and I also feel that Hasty should be the main option as a nature. It should probably be the only option now that I think about it.

Another suggestion I have is maybe dropping some of those Atk EVs and adding them to HP to increase the damage dealt by Counter. I really doubt that Weavile needs 252 Atk to OHKO Azelf/Gengar/Deoxys and I only see that extra damage helping you out in the long run.

Except no one is expecting to not be outsped by Weavile, meaning they will switch and hope for the best, Its a slight risk but considering that the entire set is based on your opponents assumptions being wrong, why not take it farther?

Also, Why settle for forcing Azelf/Gengar to switch when you can just deal away with them completely?

You really dont need to give any more to HP, with 31/6, Counter will do 562 damage to the opponent, meaning, you would only fail to Counter OHKO those Brick Breaking Blissey,Chansey and Wobbys..