Pokemon Day Presents 2024 - Pokemon LZA 2025

[Yung Dramps]

As an avid reader of Disney comics, I'll say there's a lot of underrated Mickey Mouse stuff out there. Look up some of Floyd Gottfredson's work, for instance. It's old stuff, I think some of it may enter public domain in the next few years, but really captivating stories they probably wouldn't make the likes of today.

Thanks for the tip. "Mickey Mouse" in this context is a slang term for something being half-assed and poorly done. I dont know the exact history but it's definitely on the older side so I don't blame you for not getting it, I picked it up from my dad lol

Next, regarding new Pokémon/forms. I think we can expect at least something, seeing as Game Freak has introduced a new form of at least one Pokémon on some level in every main series game since Ruby and Sapphire. BDSP didn't have any, to my great surprise, but that was ILCA's game. Come to think of it, Colosseum and XD (by Genius Sonority) didn't either, so there's precedent. But in each Game Freak game, at least one Pokémon has gotten at least one new form. Even if it was something as trivial as Spiky-eared Pichu in HGSS. So we're due for something in LZA. I think the most reasonable expectation is new Mega Evolutions, at the very least (since the symbol was shown at the end of the trailer). I'd love to see some regional forms too, of course, but I wouldn't be confident in expecting any forms beyond a few Megas. Of course, any specifics in that regard would count as wishlisting.

New Megas are obviously a given but I hope they aren't all we get for new designs and come alongside stuff that aren't temporary once-per-battle super forms to flesh out the small Kalos roster. My ideal is 5-10 brand new Pokemon not tied to anything pre-existing, but I'd be fine with regional forms and evos like what Hisui brought us. Then again considering the implied existence of a new "A" mascot perhaps there's reason to be optimistic for something like the former.

Speaking of the trailer ... it's almost frustrating how little it actually tells us about the scope and the gameplay for this game. We can reasonably expect that catching and battling Pokémon in some capacity figures into the gameplay, but even that is just an educated guess. There really are too many unknown unknowns at this point in time ...

The selfish and impatient part of me agrees with this wholeheartedly, but in the end I understand why it has to be this way: If this is the price to pay for the Legends formula getting a full 4 year dev cycle to be expanded and polished, then that's all there is to it. Wait we shall, wait we must.
that said can a loose-lipped employee kindly come out of the woodwork to confirm emma's story presence if any i would prefer not to cope for a year for potentially no payoff ok thanks

 

[RocketSurgery]

I think a 4 year dev cycle is optimistic. Legends Arceus came out Jan 2022, the game cpuld easily be on the usual dev cycle and come out Jan 2025. Just because they didn't specifically say "Early 2025" yet doesn't mean that isn't what they're aiming for. I don't know where people are getting the expectation that it will be late 2025 other than a desperate hope that SV and PLA's framerate issues will have convinced GF to break their 3 year dev cycle and let the games bake a little bit longer despite selling like hotcakes.

As for forms, I certainly hope we get some regional variants/fakes in addition to megas. I also really hope they give at least a few megas to a few gen 5-8 (& 9?) mons to include in the dex, as well as a decent number of gen 5 and 6 mons that could already be expected to be there.

I saw on Twitter some speculation that the synchro machine could be a prototype for some gameplay in LZA. I could see it happening as a mechanism for exploring parts of the city that would be hard for the player character to navigate. That said, the DLC and LZA would be developed by different teams more or less in parallel, so I wouldn't bet big on this possibility.

I don't expect we'll get much news for a while. I think PLA was on radio silence until end of summer after it was announced?

 

[Pikachu315111]

I feel like for megas, they will probably be kalos exclusive. Or at least they should be, otherwise theyll completely miss the mark in one of the main criticisms of mega distribution.
imo almost guaranteed megas are the kalos starters, pyroar and a dragon, either goodra or noivern. I dont think zygarde will get a mega, since it already has a bunch of gimmicks and none of the... xyz trio???? really fit with mega evolution. would not be surprised if we got some shit like zygarde 200% though LOOOOL but just as likely the trio is unchanged imo

While I do think many Kalos Pokemon should get Megas, I also wouldn't mind to see other gens get new Megas too, like each gen get at least one new Mega. While Kalos mons lacking Mega was an issue, the most prominent issue with Mega was not many mundane Pokemon got Mega while probably too few popular/good Pokemon got it. And that's not covering the other issues Mega Evolution had like, since only one Pokemon can Mega Evolve, and all Mega got a +100 BST no matter their stats, it means Pokemon which were already good that got a Mega were the only ones used (or the ones which got OP Abilities). I like Mega Evolution but I agree it's a mechanic which needs some improvements and hopefully they'll at least try addressing the issues.

Considering 100% is already using 5 cores I don't think we'll see a 200%... BUT I wouldn't write off new forms. I joked about a 75% form, but honestly that's probably the only place they can go. If I were designing it, I would actually make two 75% forms and have them be Zygarde either mimicking or more directly countering Xerneas and Yveltal; and justify it by saying in-lore the 75% forms have 3 cores operating it.

Also I don't see Zygarde getting a Mega but can for Xerneas and Zygarde, maybe justifying the reason for two new Zygarde forms.

i do think we should consider the fact that this is pokemon z more than just a title callback. I think this game will be a lot more about improving and giving a definitive kalos than being a legend arceus follow up (in the franchise sense, not literal sequel sense). I know the sequels are less popular in japan and iirc theres a sentiment of the original two games being the "official representatives", compared to the western base's "definitive version" focus, but this whole pokemon z over pokemon legends is why i think the game wont be that old and could even be modern imo

While it probably wasn't going to be a Pokemon Z version we would have gotten, wouldn't be surprised is if they readjusted elements they were going to have in it to better match a Legends title (a proper Z version would maybe have had all of Kalos going through a redevelopment, while Legends they scaled it down to just Lumiose City).

Also I don't think third versions are "less popular" or seen as the "official/definitive" version. Third versions do sell less than the initial pair games, but that likely has more to do with the casual players finding it hard to throw down the money for what is essentially the same game again but slightly updated. I think anyone who played or watched a playthrough or Emerald & Platinum would agree those are the definitive versions and, if there was a hard canon, those games should be the ones counted for what happened in Gen III Hoenn (though now we have ORAS which kinds of throws a wrench into things, unless they make up a Delta Emerald) and Gen IV Sinnoh.

RIP Toriyama

Truly one of the most influential creators of all time. Will be missed.

 

[R_N]

Yeah honestly while Z-A probably is getting extra time in the oven I am guessing it's probably not a full extra year. I'm not a "jan-march 2025" truther but I can see April-June.
Enough to get maybe a little extra spit shine but it's probably still going to be a kind of janky, kind of ugly game that did indeed need another year in the oven


Gen 10 I could concievably see getting that extra year, since there's way more runway on that one than people give credit for. But it might also wind up being on Switch 2, where they have to redevelop all their tools a second time so it just winds up being like SWSH again anyway...

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I think a 4 year dev cycle is optimistic. Legends Arceus came out Jan 2022, the game cpuld easily be on the usual dev cycle and come out Jan 2025. Just because they didn't specifically say "Early 2025" yet doesn't mean that isn't what they're aiming for. I don't know where people are getting the expectation that it will be late 2025 other than a desperate hope that SV and PLA's framerate issues will have convinced GF to break their 3 year dev cycle and let the games bake a little bit longer despite selling like hotcakes.

I don't think Z-A will be late 2025 but I do think it will be later than January, perhaps somewhere around Summer 2025. Like May or June 2025, which is actually a pretty good time to release a game because it's around the end of the school year just before the big summer break. There wasn't really any gameplay footage from the reveal trailer whereas Arceus did have gameplay footage from the get-go, which suggests this game isn't near the same stage of development as Arceus was when it was first revealed. Arceus was clearly intended as the Holiday 2021 release albeit delayed a few months, and January is generally a pretty awkward release period for games. Arceus was only really able to get away with that particular timeframe because it had BDSP as a sister game to fall back on, which both covered the holiday season Arceus was intended for and served as a safety net that also enticed players into the big new game that Arceus was so they would actually buy it fresh off of playing BDSP. The faithful Sinnoh remake in time for Black Friday and Christmas, then two months later Arceus comes out and it still sells because Sinnoh is still fresh on everyone's minds thanks to BDSP.

I can't say what will happen long term but given the lack of specification (Arceus was specifically Early 2022 and was always marketed alongside BDSP which was Fall 2021), I think mid 2025 is the most likely outcome. I think the next two games with Z-A included may have a 1.5 year gap between them instead of the usual one year, with Z-A in Summer 2025 and then presumably Gen 10 will be in Fall 2026 as the big 30th anniversary title and Pokemon's first mainline game on the Switch successor which is setting up to be released towards the end of the 2024 fiscal year.

---

Anyway, I do expect new Megas at the very least. Maybe some new regional forms too, like for a mix-and-match trio of starters, and Megas for the Kalos ones. I do also expect several new Megas that may serve as boss fights for this game, much like how Nobles were the boss fights in Arceus. Like maybe we'll see Mega Evolved Pokemon watching over different areas and we have to fight them for some reason. I think some Kalos mons may get some, but we may also see new Megas from other gens, possibly either from other old gens or maybe from Alola and Galar. I would definitely expect more Gen 5 mons to get Megas since that roster has been getting bones thrown to it in just about every Switch game thus far.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I think a 4 year dev cycle is optimistic. Legends Arceus came out Jan 2022, the game cpuld easily be on the usual dev cycle and come out Jan 2025. Just because they didn't specifically say "Early 2025" yet doesn't mean that isn't what they're aiming for. I don't know where people are getting the expectation that it will be late 2025 other than a desperate hope that SV and PLA's framerate issues will have convinced GF to break their 3 year dev cycle and let the games bake a little bit longer despite selling like hotcakes.

They said "Early 2022" for Legends Arceus. That game also actually showed footage in the reveal, an indication that it wouldn't be THAT long until release. The only reason it got pushed into January was because the holiday 2021 slot was occupied by BDSP. There's nothing like that this time, so yeah. They would just release Z-A in November 2024 if the wait was that meaningless.

Maybe not Holiday 2025, but like R_N and Scrafty said I think Summer 2025 is the earliest this'll be coming out, which maybe wouldn't be necessarily optimal but it would be Better Than NothingTM

 

[TheMantyke]

I say we compromise and use the smash 4 definition of summer (like seven weeks difference from winter)

 

[RocketSurgery]

I'm not saying it's gonna be Jan 2025 for sure, just that they could still be aiming for it while not saying it in case they choose to delay. Lack of footage could be an indication that it's not as far along in development as PLA was, but they could just as well have chosen not to show footage at this stage just to avoid the hassle of people going bananas at frame-rate issues they haven't ironed out yet. That said, I agree it's totally possible that it ends up mid 2025, or even late 2025, I am just suggesting that calibrating one's expectations of quality to "3.5-4 year dev cycle" landing mid-late 2025 could be asking to be disappointed again. :P

The only reason it got pushed into January was because the holiday 2021 slot was occupied by BDSP. There's nothing like that this time, so yeah. They would just release Z-A in November 2024 if the wait was that meaningless.

Nothing that they've announced yet. Could be a high profile spin-off, or, speaking of calibrating expectations to one's less desired scenario, it may still be premature to assume we're not going to get some sort of outsourced faithful BW remake/remaster/something targeted for fall 2024. :P

(I do not claim to understand the galaxy brain marketing vision required to choose to announce things out of release order, just that I could see it happening)

 

[Yung Dramps]

Nothing that they've announced yet. Could be a high profile spin-off, or, speaking of calibrating expectations to one's less desired scenario, it may still be premature to assume we're not going to get some sort of outsourced faithful BW remake/remaster/something targeted for fall 2024. :P

(I do not claim to understand the galaxy brain marketing vision required to choose to announce things out of release order, just that I could see it happening)

Yknow maybe I could buy an unannounced remake of XY happening because we're going back to Kalos and all. Faithful BW into Z-A is total branding/synergy nonsense for the same reason as the dual Johto/Unova revisit ideas being floated around pre-reveal: The people who wanted a new adventure in Unova or a spit-and-shine of the classic Kalos experience will feel cheated.

i do think we should consider the fact that this is pokemon z more than just a title callback. I think this game will be a lot more about improving and giving a definitive kalos than being a legend arceus follow up (in the franchise sense, not literal sequel sense). I know the sequels are less popular in japan and iirc theres a sentiment of the original two games being the "official representatives", compared to the western base's "definitive version" focus, but this whole pokemon z over pokemon legends is why i think the game wont be that old and could even be modern imo

Consider this my final note until we get more news: I think people who are thinking of Z-A in terms like this are gearing themselves up for at least partial disappointment. This game, by its nature, cannot "fix" XY any more than, say, the various bits of Clone Wars spinoff media "fixed" the Star Wars prequels. I think the idea of a single-city exploration game set in Lumiose City is insanely sick and plays perfectly with one of Kalos' biggest strengths, but I don't think it's quite what the people who've been yearning for Z all these years wanted. Sure, they're clearly setting up for more Zygarde action which was the main sticking point, but what about all the other loose ends? We don't even definitively know if you'll go to Lumiose Badlands to finally get through the locked power plant door. I think it's likely, but it's not guaranteed! What Z-A can do is take some of XY's more undercooked/poorly implemented ideas and re-synthesize them into something grander but distinct. What Z-A can't do is make a better version of the 2013 3DS game. And it shouldn't! That game is what it is, for better or worse. Its faults certainly didn't stop 16 million people from buying it, nor did it stop many of them from looking back on it fondly to this day. And for those people, I can't help but think that Z-A's premise is so much more respectful to them: It's not so much about "Ugh, XY, that unfinished mess, we need to redeem it and ourselves" as it is "Remember when you were a kid and were in awe at Lumiose City's size despite ultimately being a very well-crafted illusion built for the constraints of a system weaker than the Wii? Well, we're making it as big as your child brain remembered it being!". There's probably some of the former on the developer end, but I don't get the idea that it's the overriding force at play. They had a cool idea for a game and it just so happened Lumiose City had the right set of traits to be the foundation.

 

[Bakugames]

What Z-A can do is take some of XY's more undercooked/poorly implemented ideas and re-synthesize them into something grander but distinct.

Don't worry, I'm not setting up myself for dissapointment because this is actually how i'd fix kalos LOL this is the perfect remake formula for all the non-hoenn, non-alola games. Also because I still believe it'll be open world so I won't play it anyway

 

[uppa]

I want to bring attention to the map of lumiose again, and notice the names of the five plazas.

The colors line up with the Tapus, with the exception of green, which is likely an enamorus situation. Enamorus itself is a retcon, and it wouldn’t surprise me if GF worked off of this coincidence to introduce a plotline about the Tapus in Kalos. Zygarde was in alola in USUM to deal with an invasive threat— the ultra beasts, and that same dynamic would be at play in Kalos if the Tapus decided to migrate there. The Tapus are said to be fickle, cruel gods that take satisfaction in destroying shit for no reason, so I think if an Enamorus-type addition is happening, it’s hiding in plain sight here :P

 

[Yung Dramps]

What's with the weirdly high amount of new Tapu speculation when the group literally based on a famous French story is right there

 

[R_N]

What's with the weirdly high amount of new Tapu speculation when the group literally based on a famous French story is right there

Probably because the Tapu are conspicuously absent from SV like the XYZ trio were and also Kalos had the strange souvenir so there's a connection they can grab for.

 

[Samtendo09]

What's with the weirdly high amount of new Tapu speculation when the group literally based on a famous French story is right there

Probably because the Tapu are conspicuously absent from SV like the XYZ trio were and also Kalos had the strange souvenir so there's a connection they can grab for.

Both are valid points, but I’m siding with the Swords of Justice being expanded.

Case in point, the sequels of the original Three Musketeers have a brother of a king locked in and joined the Musketeers who rescued him, with some adaptions based on these sequels were called The Fifth Musketeer. So a 5th Sword of Justice, preferably a newly recruited one akin to Keldeo, would be most logical addition without doing downright questionable rectons.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Probably because the Tapu are conspicuously absent from SV like the XYZ trio were and also Kalos had the strange souvenir so there's a connection they can grab for.

Fair enough I guess? I mean you know me, as Alola Shill Supreme I would not complain for a second. I just think that the discrepancy in synergy between the Forces of Nature in Hisui and Hawaiian guardian totems in Paris is a bit much for the developers to ignore

 

[ant4456]

Arceus punished you by battling. It also punished you for playing well, as you WILL be revenge killed. To say nothing of how meaningless stats get, with a low damage roll from an Alakazam being comparable to a high damage roll from an WEEDLE, at the same level and using the same special attack.

Nah, the battle system of Arceus was bad.

And, honestly, I dreaded going back to it to evolve Stantlers. SV is just... more enjoyable to navigate around. Arceus just has such a huge ammount of the open world/survival/crafting system plague that videogames have as of late that it detracted from the Pokemon experience.

Goddammit I am tired of crafting systems and resource management in fucking everything. That's why I find the Switch Zelda games inferior to the first 4 3D ones.

"Games were better when all you did was press a button for combat and then in the overworld press a button to do another preset interaction, fuck all of that interesting player-driven dynamic shit"

 

[Lucario]

What's with the weirdly high amount of new Tapu speculation when the group literally based on a famous French story is right there

My reasoning for not believing the Swords will come back is because they just got their paradox forms as well as having their own quest in SwSh to catch them. It wouldn't make sense for GF to have them be so apparent in 3 games within 2 gens.

 

[ant4456]

Well, the XYZ trio isn't in SV because they were being kept for this. And yknow who else is not in SV?

Hide

View attachment 609514

Zygarde does show up in Alola and Guzzlord is found in the same cave as zygarde in those games... this would be an appropriate way to go back to the alien theme i think

I'd like to note (sorry for doubleposting) that Sun and Moon and ORAS both basically share being part Pokemon Z/X2Y2 to begin with.

SM got Zygarde Complete, Sycamore's aides grown up, and a lot of the space concepts were used. ORAS got the multiverse explanation, the origin of Megas (technically? technically) and more Megas in general.

 

[Terimas]

I would not be surprised if Z-A expanded on the Eon duo. Latias and Latios are already very likely to show up due to their megas, and introducing a third member into the family (with a mega of its own) could be a nice way to spice up their reappearance.

 

[ant4456]

While I get the logic and agree that BDSP has tons of problems that don't limit to just being "faithful" (which was also still kind of arbitrary if you ask me but you get the point), the concept art really makes it look like they fully considered adapting the full region to SWSH style. I know it's unlikely but I really would love to know what exactly happened in development. Granted the most obvious answer is probably that GF eventually decided on what would become LA and wanted BDSP to be a backup of sorts if it failed, but it would still be interesting to see the thought process.

it's that mfers the game had a 1.5 year dev time DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MORE TIME IT WOULD TAKE TO DO A SWSH GRAPHICS REMASTER COMPARED TO THAT CHIBI SHIT?

planning???
game freak planning the artstyle????

my guys, the entire Year of Sinnoh was a impulse decision by TPC to market for the anniversary. BDSP, also, was an impulse decision. That entire year was 90% impulse lmao

the goal of BDSP development was for the game to be finished and nothing else mattered, and it still released as one of the buggiest Pokemon games. Concept art did not matter when the goal for the developers became Survival rather than make a polished product that they were happy about.

Reuse the original game's code as much as possible. Simple ass artstyle. Music wasn't even done by cart, needed to get a Day 1 update for the non-MIDI battle tracks, as well as performance and other features. One of the funniest speedruns, Pokemon HOME fucked up compatibility due to being ported to Unity which HOME was not designed around, taking like half a year post launch lmao

 

[Eriorguez]

"Games were better when all you did was press a button for combat and then in the overworld press a button to do another preset interaction, fuck all of that interesting player-driven dynamic shit"

Yes.

What the hell are you trying to prove, in a site about competitive Pokemon? That people would rather play Monster Hunter?

 

[AquaticPanic]

Yes.

What the hell are you trying to prove, in a site about competitive Pokemon? That people would rather play Monster Hunter?

ngl this feels like a pretty silly point to bring up. PLA was very blatantly not built for 1v1 PVP. I'm not saying people have to like its battle system but bringing up "this is a competitive forum!!!" is a kind of counterproductive when PLA itself is not exactly made for competitive, specially given it doesn't even support PVP. Doesn't really make sense to me for someone to be mocked at the suggestion that maybe PLA having a more intricate survival overworld system is made for people who like those kinds of games and not necessarily for competitive players

I feel like that's a general point that people ignore when talking about PLA's battle system - yeah the singles trainer battles were not very good but the game is not built around that. The entire point of PLA is for the player to go out into the wild and for there to be a sense of danger where you can get attacked by a horde of wild mons at any moment. The entire battle system is based on that - facing multiple, likely lower-level wild mons at any moment - rather than the typical trainer battles we are used to (Which, for instance, even battles vs Adaman, Irida and Ingo follow this structure of 1v All). This is why damage rolls are a lot more streamlined, in a way that getting cornered by LC wild mons can still prove to be a challenge if you are not careful. You just have to think about it critically on what the game is trying to achieve rather than directly comparing it with a different battle system that doesn't try to do the same thing.

I bring this up because it does also matter for Z-A. Whereas LA was focused on exploring the wilderness, Z-A is a lot more urban. And, even if its in the past, it seems to at least be at a time where Pokémon Training is common compared to LA where trainers weren't really a thing yet. All this makes me think we may be more likely fighting other trainers in Z-A rather than wild mons, so the battle system itself may be more adapted to fit a singles format again. I highly doubt it'd be the same as the mainline series, but do expect it to be quite different from LA itself

 

[ant4456]

And, even if its in the past, it seems to at least be at a time where Pokémon Training is common compared to LA where trainers weren't really a thing yet.

Correction: Legends Arceus already existed at a time where Pokemon training existed.

Something people seem to miss all the time is that NPCs in Legends Arceus literally say that other regions already have Pokemon battling.

LA is based on Hokkaido which was basically closed off to the world until Japan and (IIRC) Britain colonized it, as I've talked to on this Discord before.

It also isn't even that old. Technically, if people are right that Z-A takes place in the 1860s, Legends Arceus takes place during or AFTER Z-A. Because it's based on a period around the late 1860s to 1915 or so (full process).

 

[Ironmage]

I'm not satisfied with a focus on asymmetric PvE being the only reason the PLA battle system is bad because there are many other games that have that focus and good battle systems. What concerns me is how the battle system relates to the catching mechanics. PLA uses actual battles as a punishment for failing a straight catch in the overworld, so the battles can't be more engaging than the overworld catching because then there wouldn't be any incentive to interact with the overworld mechanics to skip battles. So unless LZA somehow has some of the best overworld mechanics gaming has ever seen, wild battles won't be that great. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Let's Go having completely different wild and trainer battles might be the best option for shoving a square peg through the unnecessary round hole GF insists on making.

 

[Blue glass]

I would not be surprised if Z-A expanded on the Eon duo. Latias and Latios are already very likely to show up due to their megas, and introducing a third member into the family (with a mega of its own) could be a nice way to spice up their reappearance.

Welcome Laties, the non-binary sibling of the Eon trio, their color scheme is obviously the trans flag colors. The mega still the same as the other two though.