We know DNite is in the game since both it and Dragonair have been seen in past trailers. Though again we have no idea currently about the distribution of the move
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Pokemon Scarlet & Violet - 18th Nov 2022! **OFFICIAL INFO ONLY**
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
I don't really see Shed Tail being that useful at first glance. Unless you want to play the prediction game with a 1 use move (since you are losing half your HP in order to use it and I'm not counting with being able to do it twice in most games because of unavoidable chip in real scenarios) you may want to move last to ensure the subs survives your opponents turn. So, you are risking being hit in order to make a sub that still needs 50% of your HP; now to be fair, this isn't really a problem, there are enough passive mons in the game in which this could work without fearing the incoming damage. Still, it's basically u-turn/volt switch without the chip damage they provide and a 1 use thing that still takes 1 slot in your moveset.
Unless moves like Wish, that can provide solid wish support through the entirety of the game and adapt themselves to every kind of scenario, this is a 1 time tactic. You've to wait for the exact moment to use your Shed Tail and bring with it someone (100% a sweeper) who can dent holes in the oponents team with a free setup move. I can see this working on very specific teams like HO, still, due to the nature of this kind of teams, i dont know if it they will afford having 1 more or less bulky mon who can do the thing.
What wild new stuff! I was really hoping that there'd be a be-all end-all teristal move so the options were practically endless and gamefreak delivered. What a fun looking mechanic! I'm really excited to see what typing things want moving forward. I'm also hoping uhh that flying-types don't just immediately break the mechanic lol. There's already worry about giving same type attack boosts too much power and now things like Gyarados and Salamence have reliable flying-type stab to fling around. I don't anything will ever be as insane as Max Airstream in SWSH, but I'm hoping it'll all stay tapered down well enough.
It’s going to be interesting to see if there are any type chart revisions this go around. Obviously any changes are pretty unlikely given they’ve only done them upon new types being introduced. That said, with this whole generation’s battle mechanic focusing around changing yourself into a mono type, I’m more willing to see them explore revisions than normal with the lopsided banes and boons of each more exposed. I doubt it, but it would be nice to have a few types fiddled with.
Some types just feel they're built with some type-wide philosophy built in and teristal just tosses a bunch of that out the window. Steel-types don’t often get reliable recovery (mostly just Steel + some other type that gets roost), but now we’re about to have stuff like Dragonite be a Steel-type with Multiscale, Roost, and every other toy you could want lmao. I wonder if maybe they’ll finally cut the cord on some of steel’s more indulgent resistances that probably don’t have huge gameplay changes (making steel take neutral from bug and grass is probably fine with the pile of resistances both types still have I guess? as opposed to the ghost and dark changes which majorly changed tons of coverage choices). That's about as deep as I'll go there since specific changes I'd want would just be wild wishlisting.
I would very highly doubt that any ability is getting dexited beyond just not being on a Pokemon in the game. Dexit is a necessity revolving around the logistics nightmare of animating 1000 different characters in tons of scenarios. Abilities are so much less work. The worst it gets is like funky interactions, and they've ultimately been pretty good at watching problematic abilities like a hawk. The worst I can remember seeing recently is like the Symbiosis leftovers stuff from a few games back. I'd be genuinely shocked to have things as simple as Skill Link missing from the new games. I really doubt loaded dice is any indication it's going away.
can't wait for my normal-type arceus to change type with legend plate Judgement, then change to a new type with teristal, then change back from another judgement to assert total dominance.
It’s going to be interesting to see if there are any type chart revisions this go around. Obviously any changes are pretty unlikely given they’ve only done them upon new types being introduced. That said, with this whole generation’s battle mechanic focusing around changing yourself into a mono type, I’m more willing to see them explore revisions than normal with the lopsided banes and boons of each more exposed. I doubt it, but it would be nice to have a few types fiddled with.
Some types just feel they're built with some type-wide philosophy built in and teristal just tosses a bunch of that out the window. Steel-types don’t often get reliable recovery (mostly just Steel + some other type that gets roost), but now we’re about to have stuff like Dragonite be a Steel-type with Multiscale, Roost, and every other toy you could want lmao. I wonder if maybe they’ll finally cut the cord on some of steel’s more indulgent resistances that probably don’t have huge gameplay changes (making steel take neutral from bug and grass is probably fine with the pile of resistances both types still have I guess? as opposed to the ghost and dark changes which majorly changed tons of coverage choices). That's about as deep as I'll go there since specific changes I'd want would just be wild wishlisting.
I would very highly doubt that any ability is getting dexited beyond just not being on a Pokemon in the game. Dexit is a necessity revolving around the logistics nightmare of animating 1000 different characters in tons of scenarios. Abilities are so much less work. The worst it gets is like funky interactions, and they've ultimately been pretty good at watching problematic abilities like a hawk. The worst I can remember seeing recently is like the Symbiosis leftovers stuff from a few games back. I'd be genuinely shocked to have things as simple as Skill Link missing from the new games. I really doubt loaded dice is any indication it's going away.
can't wait for my normal-type arceus to change type with legend plate Judgement, then change to a new type with teristal, then change back from another judgement to assert total dominance.
Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
Actually that might be indication that abilities are getting cut, specifically Protean. Or more likely, they cut Kecleon, Greninja, and Cinderace, or disable Protean when Terastal. Probably also disable Reflect Type and stuff when Terastal too.
That’s the Water crown: we’ve seen it before. The website states it’s a Water type. The reason why it looks different from the Ghost transformation is because in the trailer Ghost skips the Tera symbol and crystals for sake of time. Give it a rest.
Well...
Cyclizar looks like single-stage pokemon. And his story on the website makes me belive this lizard is related to the cape legendaries. "This Pokémon has lived in many households in the Paldea region since ancient times." Sounds like domestication, a species that adapted to live among humans. And so... Humans could have used it for some experiments, and now we have Miraidon and Koraidon.
As for the terastal stuff... It is just like we imagined: just turn your pokemon into a monotype, and also give it a stab move with terablast. Interesting mechanic.Is it ban worthy? Probably not. Will it make some pokemon OP? Certainly yes.
What I really expect is, like TheMantyke said above, a type chart revision.
There is no single reason, for example, to make your pokemon a mono ice/bug/grass/poison type, unless for very niche reasosn or if they already are.
Actually, Terastal will be used to remove those types.
Ice needs more resistances and less weaknesses
Bug and Grass need to have less types resistant to them
Poison needs more effectiveness when attacking.
On the other hand, Fairy and Steel are too strong and need nerfs.
But i doubt they would change this.
Cyclizar looks like single-stage pokemon. And his story on the website makes me belive this lizard is related to the cape legendaries. "This Pokémon has lived in many households in the Paldea region since ancient times." Sounds like domestication, a species that adapted to live among humans. And so... Humans could have used it for some experiments, and now we have Miraidon and Koraidon.
As for the terastal stuff... It is just like we imagined: just turn your pokemon into a monotype, and also give it a stab move with terablast. Interesting mechanic.Is it ban worthy? Probably not. Will it make some pokemon OP? Certainly yes.
What I really expect is, like TheMantyke said above, a type chart revision.
There is no single reason, for example, to make your pokemon a mono ice/bug/grass/poison type, unless for very niche reasosn or if they already are.
Actually, Terastal will be used to remove those types.
Ice needs more resistances and less weaknesses
Bug and Grass need to have less types resistant to them
Poison needs more effectiveness when attacking.
On the other hand, Fairy and Steel are too strong and need nerfs.
But i doubt they would change this.
I just realized.
With Tera Blast, maybe Luxray and Electivire will have a STAB option that doesn't suck.
(Inb4 they get cut instead.
)
With Tera Blast, maybe Luxray and Electivire will have a STAB option that doesn't suck.
(Inb4 they get cut instead.
)
Say, do we know how the effects of Terastal work upon switching out? Is it like G-Max/D-Max where you lose the effect upon switching out? Or maybe its like Megas where it stays that way the entire time?
Imagine a Salamence clicking Dragon Dance on your Tapu Fini switch and then blasting you with +1 Electric Tera Blast. Then, upon switching out on your ground type, it has its previous Flying typing and subsequent Ground immunity. Strategies will be certainly interesting with this mechanic, ill tell you that much.
Imagine a Salamence clicking Dragon Dance on your Tapu Fini switch and then blasting you with +1 Electric Tera Blast. Then, upon switching out on your ground type, it has its previous Flying typing and subsequent Ground immunity. Strategies will be certainly interesting with this mechanic, ill tell you that much.
yes we know explicitly it stays on the entire time.
Since there's a lot of confusion about this here are things we can say with 100% certainty:
-It does not take an item
-You can use it once a battle
-You can use it on one Pokemon
-It lasts the entire battle
-While playing the main game, you have to recharge it either at the Pokemon Center or at a Raid Den
-Every Pokemon you catch will have an associated Tera Type, which can vary between ones of the same species
-Every Pokemon can Terastallize
-Terastallizing makes you a single typed Pokemon of that Tera Type (ie: Fire Drifloon goes from Ghost/Flying -> Fire)
-Terastallizing gives the standard STAB to your new type.
-Terastallizing into one of your base types will give an extra power boost to your STAB of that type (ie: Tera Ghost Drifblim will have stronger Ghost attacks than Tera Ghost Pikachu)
-"Rarer" Tera Types for Pokemon can be found more easily in Raid Dens
-Tera Beam is a Normal Type move teachable by TM that uses the highest of your Attack or Special Attack and changes Type to match yours when Terastallized
And here are things we can probably intuit but strictly speaking aren't explicitly stated or shown:
-Any Pokemon can have any Type and it's not limited to just a handful per Pokemon
-Different Pokemon have different rarities on their Tera Types
-Tera Beam is likely learnable by everyone
-It does not take an item
-You can use it once a battle
-You can use it on one Pokemon
-It lasts the entire battle
-While playing the main game, you have to recharge it either at the Pokemon Center or at a Raid Den
-Every Pokemon you catch will have an associated Tera Type, which can vary between ones of the same species
-Every Pokemon can Terastallize
-Terastallizing makes you a single typed Pokemon of that Tera Type (ie: Fire Drifloon goes from Ghost/Flying -> Fire)
-Terastallizing gives the standard STAB to your new type.
-Terastallizing into one of your base types will give an extra power boost to your STAB of that type (ie: Tera Ghost Drifblim will have stronger Ghost attacks than Tera Ghost Pikachu)
-"Rarer" Tera Types for Pokemon can be found more easily in Raid Dens
-Tera Beam is a Normal Type move teachable by TM that uses the highest of your Attack or Special Attack and changes Type to match yours when Terastallized
And here are things we can probably intuit but strictly speaking aren't explicitly stated or shown:
-Any Pokemon can have any Type and it's not limited to just a handful per Pokemon
-Different Pokemon have different rarities on their Tera Types
-Tera Beam is likely learnable by everyone
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I do think this mechanic will be banned in singles in the same way Dynamax was. The principal difference between this and Mevos was that, altho there were some Mevos broken, each of them were predictable. Not in the specific set, but in it's capabilities. When you see a Medicham at team preview, you already know it's Mega Medicham. Is M-Med broken? May be, but the thing is you know what you are fighting against, you know what its attack can be, what its potential movepool can be, and what can check it. You are fighting a very specific threat; now, if that threat is obviously broken to the point that even knowing its limitations it still surpases the meta by bruteforcing through, that specific individual gets banned.
The problem with Dynamax is that not a single Pokémon is a threat in itself, but each one has the potential to be so. A random Mantine at any given moment can snowball through your team; any random mon at any given moment can dynamax to survive a OHKO; it forces a constant 50/50 scenario every single turn, and this, in a format like 1v1 singles where snowballing effects are much difficult to overcome than doubles, is dreadful.
With this, it is the same. The reward for winning the 50/50 in a given turn determines the outcome of the entire battle. How can you exactly fight against a sweeper that can change its typing to anything else after boosting, rendering its check/counter useless? You have to:
1) Be 100% sure you know what mon in your opponents team will teracrystalize. This is already impossible.
2) Be 100% sure to what type will it change to.
3) Be 100% sure in which turn will this happen.
If you fail a single criteria, snowball effect is comming inmediatly.
The problem with Dynamax is that not a single Pokémon is a threat in itself, but each one has the potential to be so. A random Mantine at any given moment can snowball through your team; any random mon at any given moment can dynamax to survive a OHKO; it forces a constant 50/50 scenario every single turn, and this, in a format like 1v1 singles where snowballing effects are much difficult to overcome than doubles, is dreadful.
With this, it is the same. The reward for winning the 50/50 in a given turn determines the outcome of the entire battle. How can you exactly fight against a sweeper that can change its typing to anything else after boosting, rendering its check/counter useless? You have to:
1) Be 100% sure you know what mon in your opponents team will teracrystalize. This is already impossible.
2) Be 100% sure to what type will it change to.
3) Be 100% sure in which turn will this happen.
If you fail a single criteria, snowball effect is comming inmediatly.
This is what I thought, Tera into a different type than your originals gives you the classic x1.5 boost, while tera into one of your original typings or type gives you an even stronger boost.
This was my fault for saying it in a weird way
I just mean that the new typing does still come with the standard stab bonus. I wanted that to be its own bullet point to underline the power dynamics, but I said it wrong.
We have already seen Luxray in the trailersI just realized.
With Tera Blast, maybe Luxray and Electivire will have a STAB option that doesn't suck.
(Inb4 they get cut instead.
I'll admit I only looked occasionally at the "development" of Dynamax's ban, but I think the real issue with Dynamax was less "any pokemon can snowball" and more "specific pokemon can snowball, and that caused many problems". Anyone COULD do it, sure, and you had to be aware of that but a look at the team usually you'd see "oh THIS is the one that will abuse dynamax"
So while I think the ability for anyone to change their type is relevant it will quickly become "okay realistically i'm only going to see these pokemon on this team tera and it will probably be these types".
not to say it can't be a problem but more for the known abusers and less so the mysteriousness of it.
No official statement given, though I believe one of the leakers gave some clarification if you want to dig for it. I just didn't want to deal with that for my post.
The level of snowballing doesn't seem as potent with this mechanic compared to Dynamaxing sinice it has its own pros and cons. Like, something like Scizor could Tera into an Electric-type to beat Toxapex, but then it would lose both its amazing typing and STAB on BP. However, Super STAB does seem like it would be broken if it works how I think it will and gives a double STAB boost or something.
I'm not going to deny the possibility of this mechanic being broken, but atm, I don't see it being anywhere near as powerful as Dynamax, which could give some ridiculous stat boost with some of its moves like Max Airstream (on top of being really powerful attacks). Additioinally, it lacks one of the main broken elements of DMax which was doubling the Pokemon's bulk.
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Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
In addition, many mons will prefer to Tera into types they naturally get coverage of, so they don’t have to use a moveslot on a move that’s mediocre outside of Terastal form.
Surprised nobody’s made a Terastallizaton joke given the existence of Steel Toxapex.
Surprised nobody’s made a Terastallizaton joke given the existence of Steel Toxapex.
Also notice how the colors have a hint of lavender and the tombstone designs too.
I feel like a lot of people here are expecting to run into cool gimmicks like Flying Heatran and Water Coalossal all the time, and they're gonna find a rude awakening.
Maybe people will try that out for the first few months to be cute, but it seems incredibly likely to me that the Tera meta will eventually become almost exclusively making use of the pseudo-adaptability bonus, which IMO is simply way too powerful to give up. Mono-Steel Scizor with Swords Dance Technician Adaptability BP in particular stands out as something I'll be testing early (assuming he's in the game idk).
What I do know is that there's no way this is getting banned, or at least not for a while. Dynamax was broken for a lot of reasons, doubling health, giving max-moves and ignoring Choice locks was insane for one mechanic. This on paper is not really comparable. Not to mention, the bad optics of banning the main mechanic two gens in a row.
I don't usually post in here but just wanted to give my (probably overly cynical) two cents.
Maybe people will try that out for the first few months to be cute, but it seems incredibly likely to me that the Tera meta will eventually become almost exclusively making use of the pseudo-adaptability bonus, which IMO is simply way too powerful to give up. Mono-Steel Scizor with Swords Dance Technician Adaptability BP in particular stands out as something I'll be testing early (assuming he's in the game idk).
What I do know is that there's no way this is getting banned, or at least not for a while. Dynamax was broken for a lot of reasons, doubling health, giving max-moves and ignoring Choice locks was insane for one mechanic. This on paper is not really comparable. Not to mention, the bad optics of banning the main mechanic two gens in a row.
I don't usually post in here but just wanted to give my (probably overly cynical) two cents.
I think another thing worth noting is that for all intents and purposes, Dynamaxing turned the receiving Pokemon into a Superboss for your team, complete with a bunch of mechanics that are completely asymmetrical with a normal Pokemon. With Megas and all revealed info on Terastalizing, the Pokemon change into the new form but are still subject to all the exact same mechanics as a standard one. Granted some of these matter more in Singles than Doubles and vice versa, but nonetheless Dynamax is a different beast entirely just on a base functionality.
A brief skim of the Bulbapedia article includes the following for things Dynamax ignores or exploits
With Megas, you could build teams that don't strictly need a Mega to function decently in a tier (might be more common in lower tiers with the more limited pool, but not like they lacked for Megas strong in their tier despite this), and Z-moves could often be meant to nuke specific targets who they wouldn't be needed for. Terastalize will usually serve a particular purpose (escaping trapping, picking a better type to sweep with, etc.), and if that purpose isn't applicable to a given battle (or was still prepped for), then the team did relinquish something in doing it.
A brief skim of the Bulbapedia article includes the following for things Dynamax ignores or exploits
- Weight based moves fail (Low Kick and Grass Knot being decentish Coverage side coverage)
- Proper HP-affecting not using the inflated stat ("When calculating changes in HP (damage or restoration) based on the percentage of a Pokémon's maximum HP, the Dynamax Pokémon's non-Dynamax HP is used.")
- Phazing or majority of forced switches fail (considering Boosting easy is one advantage of D-max this is definitely notable)
- Restrictions from several items (admittedly not clear how Pre-Dynamax Choiced -> Dmax -> Back to normal would go) turn off while maxed.
- ALL the secondary effects added to the moves (several Pokemon gain significantly more from attacking-while-boosting than others do, or simply not giving up attack turns to start snowball effects like Speed Boosts or Terrain setting)
- Still does minor damage through Protect (mostly matters because of the above mentioned effects)
- ALWAYS inflicts its Secondary effects to the entire relevant side (Protect fails to stop the move from executing and stat lowering effects still go through substitute even if it blocks the damage, before affecting the entirety of either side)
- The Buffing effects are not limited to the user (so you're not dealing with one mon getting faster or Bulkier or stronger, you're dealing with both doing so)
- Dynamax costs literally nothing besides your once-a-battle usage (vs Mega Stones and some Megas being built completely different from using their normal form), and no Pokemon has to make any major decisions within its use of Dynamax to do it (i.e. Tera types being set before the battle starts rather than selectable on the fly, also Tera Blast and potential move/ability/item choices that might suit one or another better).
With Megas, you could build teams that don't strictly need a Mega to function decently in a tier (might be more common in lower tiers with the more limited pool, but not like they lacked for Megas strong in their tier despite this), and Z-moves could often be meant to nuke specific targets who they wouldn't be needed for. Terastalize will usually serve a particular purpose (escaping trapping, picking a better type to sweep with, etc.), and if that purpose isn't applicable to a given battle (or was still prepped for), then the team did relinquish something in doing it.
I want to note it's less flexible than some people are making it out to be, and dedicated terras are probably going to be more common than not.
Every team member's Terra-type is predetermined before the battle. It's not like you can Terra your Tyranitar into a different type every battle depending on the threat. As such, every Pokémon is going to have a preferred Terra type or types. When you see Avalugg in the team preview, chances are near zero that'll it'll Terra into anything other than a small handful of types. It's not like they can run a Steel Avalugg and then switch its Terra to Water if they encounter a mono-Fire team on the ladder.
Not to mention Terra Blast is hungry for your moveslots.