[QC Ready 1/3] Blaziken

[Jukain]

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Quite strong.</li>
<li>Fire/Fighting dual STABs with high-powered High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz.</li>
<li>MEvo makes it faster and stronger than ever before.</li>
<li>Speed Boost.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Ground/Water are common weaknesses.</li>
<li>Not all that bulky.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: High Jump Kick
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Stone Edge / Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


<p>This is your basic Blaziken Swords Dance sweeper set. It comes in, sets up, and hits hard with its two STABs. Normal Blaziken has the advantage of an ability to be used with Mega Charizard Y. Stone Edge is generally preferred to hit Talonflame on the switch and Noivern, while Protect can be used to obtain a free Speed boost. Rotom-W makes for a good pair to pressure Talonflame and Azumarill revenge killers, as well as Gyarados should you forgo Stone Edge and Slowbro. It is also important to mention Blaziken is primarily a mid-game sweeper in nature. The limits to sun and its survivability cause it to faint prematurely before finishing a sweep. Therefore, Pokemon like Swords Dance Aegislash, Scizor, and Lucario, which benefit exponentially from Blaziken softening up their checks, make helpful partners.</p>

<p>Blaziken @ Blazikenite<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe<br />
Adamant Nature<br />
- Swords Dance<br />
- Flare Blitz<br />
- High Jump Kick<br />
- Stone Edge / Protect</p>

<p>This is the same Swords Dance set as the one above, but for Mega Blaziken. You come in, Mega Evolve with an accompanying Swords Dance, and attack. Although Mega Blaziken is actually slightly less powerful than its normal forme carrying a Life Orb, it still boasts roughly equivalent power without the detriment of being Life Orb stalled, in addition to increased bulk for more setup opportunities and a higher starting Speed of 100, making it less reliant on Protect. It simply comes in, Mega Evolves with an accompanying Swords Dance, and sweeps. Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick cover the vast majority of threats, with Stone Edge rounding out the coverage. Protect can be used in place of Stone Edge because, although Mega Blaziken is faster than before Mega Evolving, it can still be outsped by Choice Scarf users&mdash;particularly ones with a higher base Speed than 100. As with normal Blaziken, certain Water-type checks&mdash;specifically Slowbro and Azumarill&mdash;must be removed in order for it to properly function. Rotom-W, which is able to pivot into and cripple these Pokemon, makes for an excellent partner because of this. Furthermore, a lure with Grass Knot like </p>

<p>Blaziken @ Life Orb<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
Rash Nature<br />
- Fire Blast<br />
- High Jump Kick<br />
- Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge<br />
- Protect</p>

<p>Here we have a simple mixed wallbreaker set. With a powerful, possibly sun-boosted Fire Blast and a strong High Jump Kick, Blaziken can rip apart much of its opposition. Hidden Power Ice is generally best for coverage due to scoring a hard hit on Dragon-types, but Stone Edge for Talonflame on the switch, Noivern, and Gyarados is also a viable choice, especially for the former, which is a top threat..</p>

<p>Blaziken @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe<br />
Jolly Nature<br />
- Baton Pass<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Flare Blitz<br />
- Protect / High Jump Kick / Swords Dance</p>

<p>Blaziken @ Blazikenite<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: ?<br />
Rash(?) Nature<br />
- Fire Blast<br />
- High Jump Kick<br />
- Stone Edge<br />
- Protect</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Slowbro is by far the most reliable way to handle Blaziken. Its massive physical bulk resistances to Blaziken's STABs make it a perfect choice, as well as its access to recovery and super effective STABs. Quagsire is probably closest following it, in addition to bulky Starmie. Dragonite also resists both of its STABs and can easily set up on and KO Blaziken in return. Talonflame resists its STABs and can OHKO with a priority Flying-type STAB, but must watch for a Stone Edge on the switch. Hippowdon is just generally bulky and removes the sun if it's up, stopping Blaziken directly in its tracks.</p>

<p>In terms of offensive checks, attacking Starmie and Delphox are your best bets. They can each take at minimum one hit and retaliate hard with their super effective STABs. Priority moves from Pokemon such as Breloom and Azumarill can cut Blaziken's sweep short.</p>

 

[AccidentalGreed]

How about normal Speed Boost Blaziken? You can surely use him if you are currently using another Mega Pokemon, and even before mega evolution he's formidable enough.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Ctrl + F "Baton Pass"

No results found.

----------

This needs to be fixed. iirc Blaziken can get it before Pokemon Bank via Mawile, the Eeveelutions, or, you know... Smeargle. Sure, you lose out on Protect which can hurt at times (i.e. not being able to use Protect to get that easy Speed Boost,) but being able to pass your boosts to another teammate is just amazing; the combination was good enough to make it one of the reasons it was banned from Dream World OU last generation and I am simply bewildered how it doesn't even have a mention here.

So... Unless I'm missing something big, Baton Pass needs to be somewhere. If I'm missing something, then please, enlighten me.

 

[ginganinja]

also Id potentially even what a mention of MixKen. Sure, you lack the immediate power of SD, but in the process,you get to hit waters with HP Grass etc. I know it got some use in Generation 5, so I would appreciate QC input as well, as to whether they think its still viable after the Mega Evo Stat changes / HP Nerf etc

 

[dekzeh]

Is Quagsire even worth mentioning? It's such an obscure, bad, and not used poke and doesn't even make a great counter seeing as it is always 2HKO'd by HJK. Instead mention more relevant counters such as defensive Gyarados, who can even run Roar/Dragon Tail to stop Baton Pass variants (yeah, Baton Pass definitely should be a slash, and also mention how you can use it alongside Protect and instead of Swords Dance if your BP targets are on the special side).

Talonflame is a great revenger who can even switch into Blaziken if SR isnt up. Delphox is really probably not gonna be used enough to deserve a mention, but eh, whatever I guess. Azumarill deserves more praise, for it is not only a revenge killer you say, it is a great counter as it resists fight with its brand-new fairy type and can't even be 2HKO'd by unboosted Blaziken.

Also, offensive Starmie is OHKO'd by +2 HJK, unless it is a defensive variant it has no business switch into Blaziken.

Also Chandelure is a 100% counter, being immune to both STABs.

 

[BKC]

I HEREBY QUALITY CONTROL APPROVE THE GREATEST POKEMON OF ALL TIME IN ALL HIS MAJESTIC GLORY

 

[alexwolf]

Baton Pass definitely needs a main slash on the set, maybe even the first one. Baton Passing Swords Dance boosts while applying big offensive pressure is going to be Blaziken's best role in 6th gen. Yeah sweeping with Swords Dance and Protect is always an option, but between Blaziken's frailty, lack of resistances to common priority attacks (other than Bullet Punch), and Flare Blitz recoil, Blaziken is not a reliable sweeper. Often, all you have to do is sacrifice one Pokemon to Flare Blitz and you can then put Blaziken into OHKO range of powerful Pokemon such as Shadow Sneak Aegislash, Vacuum Wave Mega Lucario, Extremspeed LO Lucario, and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack. Not to mention that Azumarill and Talonflame are probably going to be prevalent Pokemon that can OHKO Blaziken at any given time with their priority moves.

But, as a Baton Passer Blaziken is excellent. It forces a ton of switches to setup SD and can take advantage of the defensive Pokemon it attracts in order to Baton Pass the boosts to the appropriate receiver. It also doesn't fear priority nearly as much as the sweeping set as it isn't aiming to stay in for an extended period of time, just long enough to pass the boosts (usually 2-3 turns). So, i suggest either slash Baton Pass before Protect or before Swords Dance.

Oh and make a set for regular Blaziken as well.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

I agree that normal Blaziken should have it's own set, but I also think your counters section is missing quite a few key Pokemon. Tentacruel, Gyarados, Azumarill, Dragonite, Salamence, and Talonflame can take on Blaziken nicely.

Also, I really think a mix set deserves a mention somewhere. Although the moves aren't set in stone, I can see a set of Protect / Baton Pass, HP Ice, Fire Blast, and HJK working really nicely. Thunder Punch could also get a mention over HP Ice for Gyarados, Slowbro, and Tentacruel.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I finally re-downloaded PO a couple of days ago and started playing a lot of games with Blaziken. I'd like to just share my thought on some of the sets that I think should be considered here.

Swords Dance: I like the way this set in the OP is set up, but I do agree with LucaroarkZ and alexwolf that Baton Pass needs a slash. Protect is great for netting an extra Speed Boost, especially since a +2 Adamant Mega Blaziken outspeeds all relevant Scarf users. However, you'll often find yourself in a position where the opponent brings in a Gyarados, Slowbro, etc. and forces you out. Being able to pass a Speed Boost or two in situations like that is incredibly useful, so I'd honestly slash it before Protect. I think you could also mention normal Blaziken here as well. In the event that you want to use a different Mega Pokemon, normal Blaziken can still work very well. A Jolly Life Orb Blaziken will still outspeed all relevant Scarf users at +2 while maintaining ~96% of the power of an Adamant Mega Blaziken.

Mixed: I definitely support MixKen getting a set, or at least a solid Other Options mention or something. The mixed set is cool in that it has great initial power, which is fantastic for opponents thinking they'll get a free switch as you use Swords Dance. It also helps against several of Blaziken's usual counters if it can hit them on the switch. Even with the power drop, HP Electric almost always 2HKOs Slowbro with no prior damage, always 2HKOs Azumarill (although you'll want to switch out the first time in case of Aqua Jet), and sometimes OHKOs RestTalk Gyarados (always OHKOs with Stealth Rock). I think regular Blaziken will be the optimal choice here since Mega Blaziken's SpA increase is so much less drastic than its Atk increase. While Adamant LO Blaziken is only ~5% stronger than Adamant Mega Blaziken, Rash LO Blaziken is a solid ~15.5% stronger than Rash Mega Blaziken, so the extra power will probably be worth it. Mega Blaziken could still get a mention if you want need that extra speed, but when your main purpose is luring in your usual counters and wall breaking, speed isn't as much of an issue.

Baton Pass: I'm not sure if it's worth its own set or not, but I tried this guy out on a Baton Pass team, and he really makes a great Speed Boost passer. The set I ran was Swords Dance/Protect or Substitute/Baton Pass/High Jump Kick or Flare Blitz. High Jump Kick is probably the better option, but with Fairies running around and people getting smarter about Protecting or switching in Ghost-types on the High Jump Kick, Flare Blitz is an option (although the recoil really hurts). Regular Blaziken might actually be the better choice for a set like this since Leftovers are great when you're spamming Protect or Substitute, but I guess Mega Blaziken still has merit for the extra speed.

I'd also like to suggest a small mention for Bulk Up. Swords Dance is generally better for sweeping, but Bulk Up has its own advantages. The bulk actually helps pretty well against priority attacks, which are the only way of outspeeding Blaziken once it gets to +2 Spe. In fact, a +1 4/0 Mega Blaziken only takes 63.57 - 75.49% from Choice Band Azumarill's Aqua Jet, letting it take the hit and Baton Pass +1 Atk / +1 Def / +1 Spe to a teammate, which can be really scary depending on what it is.

Also...

I HEREBY QUALITY CONTROL APPROVE THE GREATEST POKEMON OF ALL TIME IN ALL HIS MAJESTIC GLORY

...quoting for truth.

 

[Snunch]

I agree that Mega Blaziken should have BP as its first slash. It loses some power without life orb, which although small is very noticeable against physical walls like Hippowdon. The added bulk and higher speed makes it more suited for baton passing than regular Blaziken though. Maybe a move order like this:

- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance / Protect
- Baton Pass / Protect

As for regular Blaziken, I agree with Agent Gibbs that it needs a SD and a mixed set, but I don't think a dedicated BPer is worth a spot. Here's what I'm thinking for the two sets:


Physical Sweeper
<p>Blaziken @ Life Orb<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe<br />
Adamant Nature<br />
- Swords Dance / Protect<br />
- Flare Blitz<br />
- High Jump Kick<br />
- Stone Edge / Protect</p>


Mixed Sweeper
<p>Blaziken @ Life Orb<br />
Ability: Speed Boost<br />
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpAtk / 252 Spe<br />
Rash Nature<br />
- Fire Blast<br />
- High Jump Kick<br />
- Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge / Hidden Power Electric<br />
- Protect</p>

Mixken EVs are courtesy Jayde, so they should not be treated as final by any means.

 

[alexwolf]

Overheat should definitely be slashed with Fire Blast but other than that i agree with everything said by Snunch.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

So I think every QC member that I've spoken to wants a Mixed set, and a regular Blaziken set. Are you going to update this?

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I'm confused, according to Showdown (Smogon's simulator) Blaziken is one of the auto ubers to start the gen. Doesn't that mean that this is useless?

Also if Showdown is incorrect then you need to add its Baton Pass set, as it is arguably the best set it can run so it definitely needs to be included on-site.

 

[Jukain]

alright this is ready

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Your descriptions lack detail for me to stamp this, so add these changes and I'll see what other QC members say.

Mention HP Electric on Mix set for Gyarados, Slowbro, and Starmie. I don't see any mention of team mates, so add SD Scizor, SD Lucario, and SD Aegislash, because Blaziken can break down their checks nicely. Grass types deal with Ground and Water types, so Breloom is okay too.

Add this to your checks / counters section.

Bulky Water types. Slowbro, Gastrodon, Rotom-W, Quagsire, and Gyarados check it.
Bulky Ground types like Gliscor and Hippowdon do well.
Dragonite, Starmie, and Delphox, resist both STAB attacks.
Strong priority users such as Talonflame, Azumarill, and Aegislash can pick it off when weakened, which is easy to do when you factor in Life Orb recoil and Flare Blitz recoil (as well as Hi Jump Kick potentially missing).

 

[Plus]

Stone Edge isn't for hitting Talonflame except for on switches due to Gale Wings which gives it priority and allows it to move first regardless of how many boosts Blaziken gets. You should probably mention that Stone Edge hits Noivern, which I think is the main selling point of Stone Edge. Of course, the ability to hit Talonflame on switchins is nice, but OHKOing Noivern is probably more important.

 

[Halcyon.]

Rotom-W is a wonderful partner because it can deal with Talonflame, Gyarados, Slowbro, Hippowdon, and can check Azumarill. Why shouldn't that be mentioned? It's perfect.

 

[Oglemi]

ughhhhhhhhhh for the love of christ can we not

jukain, qc has asked you to add teammates; it's only common courtesy to listen to your peers, particularly when they're in the majority and I even said in the Index that you should add some teammates

ss/harsha/alexwolf/whoever else; please take this up with pk or me before throwing fists in public

this post doesn't make much sense now that i deleted like 10 posts but it'll remain anyway

 

[ryan]

all senior citizens should have life alert

 

[Jukain]

ok i've clarified some things with the relevant individuals and am back to work

after some thought, i've decided to include the sd sweepers, as they finish off teams, which blaziken is inconsistent at doing due to recoil and sun's limits

insofar as bulky water-types: gyarados is worth mentioning. i already have slowbro and quagsire. rotom-w and gastro are wrecked by hjk so i really don't see them working.

gliscor doesn't stand up well to boosted blaziken, especially in sun. hippo is good to mention.

dragonite/delphox/starmie/talonflame/azumarill: already there. aegislash, i will add.

as far as hp electric: i don't see a pressing need for it. i guess there's gyarados...but stone edge kills it. starmie, unless it goes bulky, can't really take much at all. hitting slowbro is indeed unique to hp electric, but slowbro isn't a majorly pressing concern enough that hp electric should be reserved just for it...i don't think it even 2hkoes.

 

[michael]

forasmuch as you enjoy using "insofar", please refrain from its egregious use in analyses .-.

also not sure how much this is written up already (not in dot points? idk), but there are some really odd things in here

Therefore, Pokemon like Swords Dance Aegislash, Scizor, and Lucario, which benefit exponentially from Blaziken softening up their checks.

this isn't even a sentence

In any reasonable conditions, Blaziken is an effective and deadly sweeper.

this looks like it was tacked onto the end of the paragraph

They can each take at minimum one hit and retaliate hard with their super effective STABs.

"at minimum" is a weird construction here. "at least", maybe?

obviously if this is going to be entirely rewritten, ignore me, but it was unclear and i'd prefer to get it cleared up sooner rather than later

 

[shrang]

I'd recommend a specialised Baton Pass set as well. Something like Swords Dance / Baton Pass / Protect / Roar | Substitute with Focus Sash or Leftovers makes it a Ninjask that doesn't suck balls.

 

[alexwolf]

I'd recommend a specialised Baton Pass set as well. Something like Swords Dance / Baton Pass / Protect / Roar | Substitute with Focus Sash or Leftovers makes it a Ninjask that doesn't suck balls.

In order to make it a Ninjask that doesn't suck balls you need to take advantage of one of Blaziken's STABs. I know that Ninjask doesn't have Roar and thus is prone to phazing, but using Blaziken without any attacks is a no-no.

Jukain, add some teammates for Mega Blaziken. You will want to mention some good receivers in the case of Baton Pass and some good softeners in the case of Protect.

Also, remove this sentence:

or forgo Mega Blaziken in favor of Mega Charizard Y, utilizing a normal Blaziken.

It is obvious that you can't use another MEvo when already using a MEvo.

 

[Jukain]

yeah that's obvious but it's a huge downside of using mega blaziken

i'm not keen on lists for bp recipients; they are basically random, and in all actuality can be pretty much anything with a decent attack stat. i'm just going to mention that requirement for a recipient.

blaziken is really the softener if you've played with it; it is the pre-late-game sweeper, in a sense.

 

[alexwolf]

yeah that's obvious but it's a huge downside of using mega blaziken

i'm not keen on lists for bp recipients; they are basically random, and in all actuality can be pretty much anything with a decent attack stat. i'm just going to mention that requirement for a recipient.

blaziken is really the softener if you've played with it; it is the pre-late-game sweeper, in a sense.

Good Baton Pass receivers are those that can safely or semi-safely switch into the usual checks and counters of Blaziken and need to be mentioned. For example, physical attackers that can switch relatively easy into water-types and beat them are good recipients, meaning Pokemon such as Rest + Chesto Berry Kingdra and Lum Berry Garchomp are great teammates.

Add defensive Gyarados as a counter to any set without Stone Edge.

Also, either slash Baton Pass somewhere on the regular Blaziken's set or make another set. Baton Pass shouldn't be only for Mega Blaziken, as there are plenty of teams that would want to use Baton Pass Blaziken but have another MEvo.

On the mixed set, explain specifically which Pokemon Hidden Power Ice takes care of and why it's the better option.