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CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 1b
- Thread starter Hyra
- Start date
- Status
I'm a fucking hypocrite because I voted ghost in the last poll. However I have since changed my mind! I chose grass because of the potential of grass/steel. How insane would that be? It reminds me of like the borg from star trek trying to combine organic materials and manufactured technology. Imagine a big steel redwood! It would have a crazy 4x weakness to fire...but that would only mean it would pair well with flash fire pokes like heatran or houndoom.
grass/steel
resists: normal, water, electric, grass (4x), psychic, rock, ghost, dragon, dark, steel.
immune: poison
weakness: fire (x4), fighting
That is awesome!!! Sure this poke hates infernape with a fucking passion, but who doesn't? This would be a great wall, and not to mention as far as immunities go, you can switch this big steel tree into leech seed too!
Basically TUskate (I) just figured out what the new poke is going to be.
To bad ghost has this poll wrapped up...
grass/steel
resists: normal, water, electric, grass (4x), psychic, rock, ghost, dragon, dark, steel.
immune: poison
weakness: fire (x4), fighting
That is awesome!!! Sure this poke hates infernape with a fucking passion, but who doesn't? This would be a great wall, and not to mention as far as immunities go, you can switch this big steel tree into leech seed too!
Basically TUskate (I) just figured out what the new poke is going to be.
To bad ghost has this poll wrapped up...
I've already made some calcs using Dragontamer's defense tiers, and, considering both pokémon's resistances, weaknesses, neutralities, and that Giratina's opponent is burned while the Grass/Steel had used Charm on the opponent (well, the Grassy robot I created was meant to be a cute feminine robot with cannons and the like... and Charm)... my Grassy poké performed WAY better than the ghostly catterpillar. And, without WoW+Charm, it was still better, but it was a much closer call, and it ended up like "pick your poison".
Creating new crazy pokémon is cool.
For what justification do you see a Ghost having magnets or magnetic ability or anything besides floating related to Magnet Rise?
Ghost all the way. I am really hoping for Ghost / Fighting. With a defensive-oriented spread, it could become a very titanic wall or tank that would have some key resistances, including Fighting, Rock, and a 4x-resistance to Bug. Can you say "Heracross" counter? In fact, it would be a great counter to most fighting Pokemon out there. Heracross has three of its four moves restricted. Machamp is hindered significantly, especially RestTalk versions with only two moves. It would only have three weaknesses -- Psychic, Flying, and Ghost. Two of these take super-effective hits from Ghost STAB (Shadow Sneak possibilities). Additionally, Ghost / Fighting would offer great type coverage and offers high-powered STABs, giving the Pokemon an ability to focus on defense while relying on the high base power of the moves for strength.
Oh, by the way, Hyra, I would very much like to be one of the individuals that submits a base spread for the Pokemon after we have chosen its typing and role. I have been involved in this process from the very beginning and feel that I could give a very sufficient spread to the table.
Oh, by the way, Hyra, I would very much like to be one of the individuals that submits a base spread for the Pokemon after we have chosen its typing and role. I have been involved in this process from the very beginning and feel that I could give a very sufficient spread to the table.
We just need some more interesting and useful Ghosts. There are plenty of interesting Grass types. I'd still love a Ghost/Dragon usable in standards.
Same here Hyra. I know that my last attempt at the base spread failed via not enough votes but I still want to give it a try and help out with this project more.
All right, sounds good.
I would say there are actually more interesting ghost types then grass types. Sure there are way more grass type combos, but consider this, just about every ghost type in the game is viable in OU play with the exception of Bannete, which is just a mess as far as stat distribution is concerened, and Sableye which is just viciously outclassed by spiritomb. The majority of grass typers are UU version of the two aforementioned ghosts. Pokemon like victreebell, vileplume, cherrim, and tropius just aren't usable in the standard metagame. I would also like to note what Mario With Lasers said about grass steel being just as viable as ghost steel without being broken.
I would really prefer that we do not create another 4x-Fire-weak Pokemon ... I am so sick of the "awesome type combinations" that boast of great resistances with the sole drawback always being Fire. Forretress (4x), Scizor (4x), Bronzong (2x) ... we do not need another one of these, especially when we have just created Syclant. I would prefer we create a Pokemon without a weakness to Fire, altogether, but that may be asking too much.
Ghosts usable in OU: Shedinja, Mismagius, Dusknoir, Spiritomb, Driftblim, Gengar, Froslass.
Grassers usable in OU: Cradily, Sceptile, Celebi, Shaymin, Roserade, Jumpluff, Ludicolo, Exeggutor, Cacturne.
"Usable in OU" meaning it can survive to do some good damage, be more of an asset to the team than a burden, and is not completely outclassed in what it does. (Yes, Shaymin is a better Specser/LOer than Celebi because of Seed Flare. They have around the same amount of special options anyways.)
Grassers usable in OU: Cradily, Sceptile, Celebi, Shaymin, Roserade, Jumpluff, Ludicolo, Exeggutor, Cacturne.
"Usable in OU" meaning it can survive to do some good damage, be more of an asset to the team than a burden, and is not completely outclassed in what it does. (Yes, Shaymin is a better Specser/LOer than Celebi because of Seed Flare. They have around the same amount of special options anyways.)
yes, sanjay but we have already discussed this fact. you listed seven ghosts. however, there are only 10 FE ghosts.
you listed 9 grasses. and there are 25 FE grass type pokemon.
meaning, ghosts are statistically better than grass, so i believe we need to make more useable grass
types.
you listed 9 grasses. and there are 25 FE grass type pokemon.
meaning, ghosts are statistically better than grass, so i believe we need to make more useable grass
types.
No you're doing it wrong.
It does not matter at all about the percentage of OU Grass types. If anything, more Grassers not in OU means more for the lower tiers which means Grass is more diverse than Ghost.
We have more Grass Pokemon than Ghost Pokemon. Most of these Ghosts are OU. A little less than half of the Grassers are OU. Grass has more diversity. Ghost has nothing compared to it.
We need a Ghost Pokemon. Another Grass adds nothing to the metagame we don't already have. Special wall? Cradily, Celebi. Support and general annoyance? Jumpluff, Ludicolo, Celebi, Breloom. Physical sweeper? Breloom, Sceptile, Torterra. Somewhat bulky, somewhat fast sweeper? Roserade, Celebi, Shaymin, Ludicolo, Breloom. Mixed/either side tank? Venusaur, Celebi. UU/BL Pokes that do great in Ubers? Exeggutor, Shiftry, Ludicolo, Jumpluff, Cherrim in doubles, even some bizzare Trick Room Groudon team can work with Sunflora.
I can go on all day like that with Grass types, but as soon as you say 'physical sweeper' I'm stuck on Ghost.
It does not matter at all about the percentage of OU Grass types. If anything, more Grassers not in OU means more for the lower tiers which means Grass is more diverse than Ghost.
We have more Grass Pokemon than Ghost Pokemon. Most of these Ghosts are OU. A little less than half of the Grassers are OU. Grass has more diversity. Ghost has nothing compared to it.
We need a Ghost Pokemon. Another Grass adds nothing to the metagame we don't already have. Special wall? Cradily, Celebi. Support and general annoyance? Jumpluff, Ludicolo, Celebi, Breloom. Physical sweeper? Breloom, Sceptile, Torterra. Somewhat bulky, somewhat fast sweeper? Roserade, Celebi, Shaymin, Ludicolo, Breloom. Mixed/either side tank? Venusaur, Celebi. UU/BL Pokes that do great in Ubers? Exeggutor, Shiftry, Ludicolo, Jumpluff, Cherrim in doubles, even some bizzare Trick Room Groudon team can work with Sunflora.
I can go on all day like that with Grass types, but as soon as you say 'physical sweeper' I'm stuck on Ghost.
I actually thought about it a little more, it might actually be quite scary given the right stats.
Weak: Dark(4x), Ghost (4x)
Resist: Psychic, Poison
Immune: Normal, Fighting
Now, supposin' we make this something like Starmie. High Speed, Good SA, moderate defenses.
Something like:
70/40/80/110/80/130
Total: 510
Weavile no longer wants to switch into this, methinks, nor Gengar. Granted, anything it can't destroy can devastate it with Pursuit, and Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch still say hello.
But then, I doubt any of these likes the prospect of a LO set with Aura Sphere/Psychic/Shadow Ball. This might actually make people want a Pursuit Groos in their standard team.
Now, the easy wasy to use this is make it some kind of astral spirit that brings the souls of pokemon to and from the grave.
It's not like this is broken either. Bronzong can send it to hell with Gyro Ball, Groos won't be OHKO'd, although it doesn't like the prospect of a Spec'd Shadow Ball. Blissey still walls it to hell, even with Taunt.
Now, my last question is: Giving this Thunderbolt to tell Skarmory to stuff it: unreasonable or no?
If we're going on a "spirit energy" kind of thing it also wouldn't be too Farfetch'd to give it Earth Power, Ancientpower, and Energy Ball.
And of course, some standard Ghost support moves, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Pain Split and the like.
For ability, Synchronize seems fitting.
Torterra has a nice Rock Polish set which IIRC is getting him banished to the realm of BL right now. Breloom, while primarily used for Spore, can also be a great physical sweeper. Sceptile is ok at it, but kinda sucky. Celebi used to have a physical set. Leafeon can Curse/SD up and sweep or BP it. And of course Shiftry and Eggy have their Explosion.
Fully. iirc no grass Pokes can sweep in the way Weavile or Tyranitar can. Breloom gets bogged down in many a Leech Seed + Posion Heal Stall war. Torterra is rarely seen at best, as there are so many other options for a Physical sweeper that doesn't need setting up, or can instead focus on Attack Boosting.
Anyway, Ghost won. Now lets go get that Bulky Steel / Ghost Sweeper we wanted!
Anyway, Ghost won. Now lets go get that Bulky Steel / Ghost Sweeper we wanted!
We are totally on the same page. This is what I was trying to get across in my previously jumbled post. Sanjay your points are very true, I hadn't thought really about uber viable grassers at all. But since i highly doubt this poke will be uber, and the fact that uber is such a small metagame, anything there should be completely discounted. I don't personally see breloom as a good example of a physical sweeper either.
Honestly as far as aesthetics are concerned grass/steel giant robot tree thinger vs. ghost/psychic something like a psychic version of banette, I know which one I'm picking.
Yeah, your picking the Ghost/Psychic since Ghost won. Lol.
I never said anything about an Uber Pokemon. I said they're viable in Ubers which is a lot more than you can say for Ghosts (Shedinja, Giratina, maybe Ghost Aruseus but Dark does it better due to resisting Ghost/Dark). And Breloom is a physical sweeper if it wants to be. Seed Bomb/Fighting move/Stone Edge/Spore is a great surprise set. I suppose it's more of an attacker than a sweeper but it's more than Ghost ever got.
Anyways this is what really pisses me off: everyone is loving the idea of another Ghost tank. We have Dusknoir and Spiritomb and Giratina and Sableye and Mismagius can CM tank, and even Shedinja is wallish to an extent, please pick physical sweeper and not tank. I know Ghosts are good for immunities and Fight/Ghost and Steel/Ghost are good defensive combos but really. If we're going to make something at least we should isolate it from a type of Pokemon we have plenty of already.
Anyways this is what really pisses me off: everyone is loving the idea of another Ghost tank. We have Dusknoir and Spiritomb and Giratina and Sableye and Mismagius can CM tank, and even Shedinja is wallish to an extent, please pick physical sweeper and not tank. I know Ghosts are good for immunities and Fight/Ghost and Steel/Ghost are good defensive combos but really. If we're going to make something at least we should isolate it from a type of Pokemon we have plenty of already.
What Sanjay said.
i just really want to see a normal/ghost type.
it just sounds so good.
it just sounds so good.
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