That's a good point. I was an advocate of making a Banette evo (I was the one who suggested using Dark Stalker's Lei Lei Chinese kung-fu zombie sprite as an inspiration), but I think now it's too late for it. Not only people voted against it (I'd like to be consequent with the majority's opinion, even if I voted the contrary), but the stat spread we are aiming for doesn't fit Banette at all. So, either choose an art that doesn't resemble Banette, or if the one chosen resembles it, just do as you say.
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CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 4
- Thread starter Hyra
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That's a good point. I was an advocate of making a Banette evo (I was the one who suggested using Dark Stalker's Lei Lei Chinese kung-fu zombie sprite as an inspiration), but I think now it's too late for it. Not only people voted against it (I'd like to be consequent with the majority's opinion, even if I voted the contrary), but the stat spread we are aiming for doesn't fit Banette at all. So, either choose an art that doesn't resemble Banette, or if the one chosen resembles it, just do as you say.
i think we can see that any banette evo will be phy. attack based, we can give it decent defences, the stat spread would have to be redone/ajusted but oh well. lots of people want a banette evo, so they should have a chance. wait why am i defending this idea i dont want a banette evo, i supose i think it should be an option on the polls anyway.
That design is really good, so I wouldn't call it a miracle. Anyway, when you say "reconstruct the art", you mean not aiming at being a Banette evolution anymore, but still being in the spirit of your design, right?
how about makeing it an alternitive shuppet evo? then we could have whatever stats we like.
For this reason, and many others, I think we should stop discussing a Banette evo. Or any other evo for that matter. We explicitly polled on this issue, and it was very clearly voted and decided.
I love KOA's Banette evo design in the art thread, but that doesn't change the outcome of the vote. What if I design a Grass/Fire pokemon that makes everybody drool? Do we consider the typing poll to be reopened? No. That's silly. In fact, I thought the scarecrow design posted in the art thread was a little counterproductive, considering that Ghost/Grass was defeated in the typing poll. But, if they REALLY think they can pass it off as Ghost/Fighting, be my guest. But, if that design wins and any of the disgruntled Ghost/Grass crowd think they can retroactively reopen/overturn the results of the typing poll, then I will have a big problem with that.
If we want to consider a design that is clearly a Banette evo and pass it off as a new pokemon, that's fine with me. If it wins, it will be a new pokemon that happens to bear a strong resemblance to Banette. There's nothing wrong with that. But we should not overturn any previous polls, because of the artwork. Some of the designs look really fast. Are we going to reconsider the speed stat limits if that artwork is chosen? No.
This should not be a Banette evo, no matter what the artwork looks like. If we reopen that decision, we open many other problems -- one of which Eric is pointing out.
I mentioned that idea too...and I was the one who posted the sprite picture of her.
Just because the base stats are highly different from Bannete's own it doesn't mean it can still be it's evo form. Look at Snorunt all 50 base stats and glalie is all 80, while Froslass is 70hp,80atk,70def,80spatk,70spdef,110spd. So if this proposed bannete evo *or not it could just be a new poke with two forms* could have an evo by giving the cleanse tag to the pokemon to make it evo, like how you would give eevee a water stone for it to become Vaporeon. That's were I bring up the tag concept again :p. Other than that though you could prolly use a dark stone...or reaper cloth
It's pretty stupid to make a voodoo marionette vengance Ghost/Fighting physical based doll and not have it evolve from Shuppet/Banette. I agree we should do the art after the stats though.
And really what is wrong with something Hariyama-esque? 144/60/60 defenses with 120 Attk. This has better typing so obviously the defenses will be worse than that but why is everyone advocating around 100 Attk? Do we really want this to be another Dusknoir? Where people use it to sit there and take hits and support and kill things with a weak after it walls them? If we don't give it at least around 110 we'll get nothing but a better Dusknoir.
And really what is wrong with something Hariyama-esque? 144/60/60 defenses with 120 Attk. This has better typing so obviously the defenses will be worse than that but why is everyone advocating around 100 Attk? Do we really want this to be another Dusknoir? Where people use it to sit there and take hits and support and kill things with a weak after it walls them? If we don't give it at least around 110 we'll get nothing but a better Dusknoir.
Seconding Doug's post. Even if it does somewhat resemble a Banette evo. Similarities betweenm pokemon are everywhere. Case in point, Plusle/Minun.
The fuck? These two are the most blatant Pikachu wannabes and yet they are separate pokemon species altogether. They also suck. Just saying.
And I can always edit the head to toss aside any resemblance to Banette if it wins, though truth be told, I'm liking the mummy more. :3
The fuck? These two are the most blatant Pikachu wannabes and yet they are separate pokemon species altogether. They also suck. Just saying.
And I can always edit the head to toss aside any resemblance to Banette if it wins, though truth be told, I'm liking the mummy more. :3
Second that notion and Doug's post.
What I did for the defensive calculations was use 252 HP/252 Defenses with Nature in order to give an accurate view of what this pokemon could do with a defensive spread. Getting those numbers on both defenses simultaneously is literally impossible. However, getting the numbers on one of the defenses is possible, which is why my spread for instance would be an awesome physical wall/tank but a crappy special wall/tank.
For an example look at Steelix:
75/200/65
354 * 548 Defense = 193,992
354 * 251 SD = 88,854
Overall: 141,423
Naturally Steelix's overall ability is heavily skewed by it's MASSIVE defense. The point is if you're up against Steelix, try special attacks.
Your new spread: 125/65/75
454 * 251 = 113,954
454 * 273 = 123,942
Overall: 118,948
Overall it could be EV'd as such to be around Hariyama level defensively, but it's physical defense is sufficiently weak and its SD is around Swampert level, a little higher.
My only concern with the spread now is that 125/80 is just begging for a Band or Scarf, but there's not much I can do, it is, after all, your spread.
Deck Knight~Interesting...very interesting. Of all the stats you analzyed, which one seem to be the most tank-ish?
OMG! I just had an idea. No wait I mentioned this a while ago. Wouldn't it be a shit load easier to have the typing poll first then go to artwork? This would prevent what is happening from happening.
Well, AJC's was the most overpowered in the last version, done as usual by scrapping an attack stat you don't want to use and pumping up the other stats, which is legitimate if you're responsible like Gamefreak was with Skarm and Weavile (to an extent), but I find it blatantly offensive to my sense of balance.
Of the spreads that I didn't cringe at in the analysis (setting aside my own for obvious reasons), eric the espeon's could be quite overpowered with Bulk Up in its original carnation, now it's a more viable candidate for Band or Scarf usage.
Rhykune's is the most naturally all-purpose tankish overall. Both of its defenses are solid with just HP investment. 110 Attack and 70 Speed is less prone to Band/Scarfing, but it will be quite a force with Bulk Up.
My spread is designed to be an exculsively physical tank. I tried to engineer it so that after a Bulk Up it would be incredibly hard to crack physically, but would still be counterable by a decently powered special attack.
The attack that might push it over the edge in power is actually Shadow Sneak. After a Bulk Up Max Atk Shadow Sneak can OHKO 0/0 Azelf with max damage, but with Life Orb, Stealth Rock, or any kind of boost or residual damage at all it could take out the pixie 100% of the time. That doesn't bode well for Gengar or Mismagius who have inferior defenses.
If it isn't Adamant though, Gengar can barely survive Max attack Bulk Up Shadow Sneak, IF it hits minimum damage or therabouts. Azelf can be OHKO'd by Max damage. Dusknoir has the problem of Shadow Claw against it.
So basically most of the would-be Psychic or Ghost counters don't work bar Cress since it gets 2HKO'd after Bulk Up and is faster. This leaves its biggest counter as flying types. Staraptor and Togekiss both fare well against it, as does Skarmory. Air Slash Crobat will also stop it. In fact, Crobat does a pretty good job LOLing at this anyway since it's bulky enough to take a hit and fighting moves are 4x resisted. Acid Armor Muk could also cause it some problems unless it gets EQ. Shadow Ball Weezing counters it as well.
Really, defensive poisons and flyers will be the main counter to this unless we give it a huge movepool. Weezing pretty much shuts it down unless we give this thing Psychic for some reason.
That's mostly how everyone does it when making stat spreads, more so on one-sided sweepers.
So...mine didn't made the cut or was it too similiar to someone else to say it was a seperate thing.
Pretty much what everyone was trying to do, make a Bulk-up behemoth lol
What was your final spread anyway as I don't remember seeing it.
Ah, sorry, must have missed yours, and a few others by users that just posted a thread and flew off into the wilderness. You've actually stuck around so it was an oversight on my part. I tried going back and editing in all of them but I missed a few.
Yours is essentially the same defensively as Rhykune's with the Defense and SD reversed.Gothic Togekiss said:
384 * 328 Defense = 121,728
384 * 317 SD = 125,952
Overall: 123,840
My spread was 83/101/118/71/86/66 = 525. I was trying to do an LOL trick by ending with 666 :-D
Ok, I just got back and read the rest of my thread. I have just decided to edit my spread now...
95/110/80/70/100/70
Final Total: 525
I tweaked it a bit. It is now a little less physically defensive. It was just an overpowered version of Swampert before. Instead of taking points off of special defense like someone said a few pages back, I took off defense, because high, balanced defensive stats are harder to crack than one really high stat and one average one. This also makes a bulk up set more viable, as it doesn't need to worry so much about taking special hits. Even so, it is not the god of special walling, so it does need to worry about heavy special hitters like Heatran, Gengar, Azelf, etc. The 110 attack is very useable, but not uber-intense. I put the points that I took off of defense into special attack, because it is most likely going to be the least used stat and it being too low gives more room for brokenness. Also, it could work as a mixed scarfer, a 4x effective HP could cause some hurting. 70 Speed is so it can outrun other walls but still stay out of the speed race. So how do you all like it?
And Deck Knight, 666 is overrated, 69 is way cooler.
95/110/80/70/100/70
Final Total: 525
I tweaked it a bit. It is now a little less physically defensive. It was just an overpowered version of Swampert before. Instead of taking points off of special defense like someone said a few pages back, I took off defense, because high, balanced defensive stats are harder to crack than one really high stat and one average one. This also makes a bulk up set more viable, as it doesn't need to worry so much about taking special hits. Even so, it is not the god of special walling, so it does need to worry about heavy special hitters like Heatran, Gengar, Azelf, etc. The 110 attack is very useable, but not uber-intense. I put the points that I took off of defense into special attack, because it is most likely going to be the least used stat and it being too low gives more room for brokenness. Also, it could work as a mixed scarfer, a 4x effective HP could cause some hurting. 70 Speed is so it can outrun other walls but still stay out of the speed race. So how do you all like it?
And Deck Knight, 666 is overrated, 69 is way cooler.
It's okay, it seem that everyone is forgetting the person that talks the most.
Cool as Rhykune stat spread was great and see that is nice.
666 joke but aside from that it looks different and...well not much else lol
I notice 500-525 and 526-545 are extremely close. I assume we'll be having a second poll between the two of them, Hyra?
The level of my evil genius just isn't appreciated.
What could be awesomer than a pokemon with 307 HP (19 Lefties + 3R) with 0 EVs and 370 (23 Leftes+ 2R) with 252 EV's? That just frees up more EV's for defenses/attack!
Better HP/defense durability than Gliscor!
300 Attack without a positive nature!
And outspeeding base 65s!
>_>
Don't forget my spread in the mix and shuffle!
EDIT: I don't know if people have noticed, but 526-545 is only five votes down ...
EDIT: I don't know if people have noticed, but 526-545 is only five votes down ...
Well if you put it that way it that's something great. Don't know what the 2R or 3R stand for lol
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