A Substitute + Torrent set can also be used to beat threats to the Choice Specs set like specially defensive Mega Charizard X and Y, Mega Metagross, and Type: Null. By using the increased utility from forgoing coverage moves for options like Substitute, Work Up, and Taunt, Greninja can pump out a huge boosted Hydro Cannon while still using status moves to lock down foes.
[SET]
name: Substitute + Torrent
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Hydro Cannon
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Work Up / Water Shuriken / Haze
item: Petaya Berry / Waterium Z
ability: Torrent
nature: Timid
evs: 76 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpA / 176 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Substitute is required for this set to function, allowing Greninja to safely defeat both Mega Charizard X and Y by using Substitute until Torrent and Petaya Berry are activated. Hydro Cannon is also a must-have, sporting a huge 150-Base Power on top of STAB, a Torrent boost, and Petaya Berry or Waterium Z to do incredible amounts of damage. Taunt allows Greninja to shut down stall Pokemon and Substitute users that would wall it, such as Mega Audino and Jumpluff . Work Up helps Greninja defeat Pokemon like Type: Null and non-Hyper Voice Mega Gardevoir that would attempt to boost their defenses to beat it. Alternatively, Water Shuriken can be used to beat Sturdy users like Golem as well as potentially Donphan and Crustle. This move is especially good when paired with a Petaya Berry, allowing Greninja to KO most Sturdy users in three hits instead of four. Haze can also be used as an alternative to Work Up, removing the foe's stat boosts, as well as guaranteeing a win against Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X. Ice Beam can also be used to beat Infestation Jumpluff and non-Choice Scarf Garchomp, but it loses so many other matchups that it's not worth using most of the time. Waterfall can also be used in conjunction with Work Up, as it guarantees a win against other Pokemon that would try to boost their Special Defense like Magearna and allows Greninja to run a mixed offensive set using Waterium Z.
Set Details
========
76 HP EVs and 108 Defense EVs prevent a Mega Charizard X's Flame Charge from breaking Greninja's Substitute. Additionally, the 76 HP EVs mean that Petaya Berry activates after 3 Substitutes, protecting Greninja from many priority moves that it resists. In addition to this, Greninja can now take 3 Seismic Tosses from Registeel, guaranteeing a win in this matchup. 176 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allow Greninja to outspeed maximum Speed Mega Lucario. Although the Mega Lucario matchup isn't a guaranteed win for Greninja, you lose nothing by investing the necessary EVs to outspeed it. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. Petaya Berry and Torrent in conjunction with Substitute allow Greninja to repeatedly use Substitute until the Berry and ability activate, allowing it to unleash a massively boosted Hydro Cannon. Waterium Z is an alternative that provides more consistency and power right out of the gate at the cost of total power; despite the increased accuracy, certain matchups such as Mega Swampert, Magearna, and Mega Gardevoir are made less consistent, making Petaya Berry generally the better option. It also improves certain matchups against Substitute users like Jumpluff, where you need to hit two turns in a row to win.
Usage Tips
========
Greninja should be sent out against slower Pokemon without a resistance to Water and stall Pokemon that are weak to Taunt. Avoid using Greninja against Pokemon that can bypass its Substitute like Meloetta. Unless the foe is exclusively a status user like Jumpluff or Type: Null, on turn 1, use Substitute. If the opponent elects to use a Speed-boosting move like Flame Charge or Dragon Dance, keep using Substitute until Greninja hits 25% health, after which you should use Hydro Cannon. If a foe such as Magearna or Mega Gardevoir tries to boost their Special Defense, use Work Up until both Pokemon are at +6, and then use Substitute until at 25% health. Certain matchups like Magearna are a toss-up, as if their Special Defense boosts reach +6, the benefit from Petaya Berry is lost. Against Pokemon like Mega Gardevoir and Tapu Lele that try to boost their Special Defense, use Substitute and then boost up with Work Up in order to win. If running Haze, use it to mitigate stat boosts from moves like Dragon Dance and Calm Mind. Make sure to not Haze away your Petaya Berry boost though! Only use Water Shuriken against Sturdy users. Unless the foe uses multi-hit moves and will faint to an unboosted Water Shuriken, like Golem, use Substitute to reach 25% health to get the Torrent and Petaya Berry boosts and then use it to hopefully KO the foe. If an opposing Pokemon uses a move like Shell Smash to boost their Speed, keep using Substitute, as they cannot eliminate Greninja if it is behind a Substitute. Between Petaya Berry and Waterium Z, they play largely similarly except against status users and Pokemon that can survive a hit from a Petaya Berry-boosted Hydro Cannon. Waterium Z allows you to use Hydro Vortex followed by Hydro Cannon the next turn, beating some Substitute users. In addition to this, with Petaya Berry, you cannot let the foe reach +6, as the advantage gained from Petaya Berry is lost. However, you can safely get to +6 with Waterium Z, as you still keep the damage boost.
Team Options
========
Pokemon that can deal with common threats to this set like Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Mega Lopunny, and Choice Scarf users such as Landorus-T, Porygon-Z, and Sawk are very good partners. Examples include Magearna, Mega Metagross, and Tapu Lele, all of which have their weaknesses to Mega Charizard X and Y, Magearna, and Jumpluff covered by Greninja. Pokemon such as Zeraora and Magnezone that can deal with the bulky Water-types that typically beat Greninja like Tapu Fini and Primarina are great teammates as well and appreciate having their matchups against Mega Charizard X and Y and non-Choice Scarf Landorus-T covered.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Synonimous, 457703]]
- Quality checked by: [[Alakazam, 276708], [Freddy Kyogre, 321529], [Osra, 239997]]
- Grammar checked by: [[deetah, 297659], [Rabia, 336073]]
[SET]
name: Substitute + Torrent
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Hydro Cannon
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Work Up / Water Shuriken / Haze
item: Petaya Berry / Waterium Z
ability: Torrent
nature: Timid
evs: 76 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpA / 176 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Substitute is required for this set to function, allowing Greninja to safely defeat both Mega Charizard X and Y by using Substitute until Torrent and Petaya Berry are activated. Hydro Cannon is also a must-have, sporting a huge 150-Base Power on top of STAB, a Torrent boost, and Petaya Berry or Waterium Z to do incredible amounts of damage. Taunt allows Greninja to shut down stall Pokemon and Substitute users that would wall it, such as Mega Audino and Jumpluff . Work Up helps Greninja defeat Pokemon like Type: Null and non-Hyper Voice Mega Gardevoir that would attempt to boost their defenses to beat it. Alternatively, Water Shuriken can be used to beat Sturdy users like Golem as well as potentially Donphan and Crustle. This move is especially good when paired with a Petaya Berry, allowing Greninja to KO most Sturdy users in three hits instead of four. Haze can also be used as an alternative to Work Up, removing the foe's stat boosts, as well as guaranteeing a win against Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X. Ice Beam can also be used to beat Infestation Jumpluff and non-Choice Scarf Garchomp, but it loses so many other matchups that it's not worth using most of the time. Waterfall can also be used in conjunction with Work Up, as it guarantees a win against other Pokemon that would try to boost their Special Defense like Magearna and allows Greninja to run a mixed offensive set using Waterium Z.
Set Details
========
76 HP EVs and 108 Defense EVs prevent a Mega Charizard X's Flame Charge from breaking Greninja's Substitute. Additionally, the 76 HP EVs mean that Petaya Berry activates after 3 Substitutes, protecting Greninja from many priority moves that it resists. In addition to this, Greninja can now take 3 Seismic Tosses from Registeel, guaranteeing a win in this matchup. 176 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allow Greninja to outspeed maximum Speed Mega Lucario. Although the Mega Lucario matchup isn't a guaranteed win for Greninja, you lose nothing by investing the necessary EVs to outspeed it. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. Petaya Berry and Torrent in conjunction with Substitute allow Greninja to repeatedly use Substitute until the Berry and ability activate, allowing it to unleash a massively boosted Hydro Cannon. Waterium Z is an alternative that provides more consistency and power right out of the gate at the cost of total power; despite the increased accuracy, certain matchups such as Mega Swampert, Magearna, and Mega Gardevoir are made less consistent, making Petaya Berry generally the better option. It also improves certain matchups against Substitute users like Jumpluff, where you need to hit two turns in a row to win.
Usage Tips
========
Greninja should be sent out against slower Pokemon without a resistance to Water and stall Pokemon that are weak to Taunt. Avoid using Greninja against Pokemon that can bypass its Substitute like Meloetta. Unless the foe is exclusively a status user like Jumpluff or Type: Null, on turn 1, use Substitute. If the opponent elects to use a Speed-boosting move like Flame Charge or Dragon Dance, keep using Substitute until Greninja hits 25% health, after which you should use Hydro Cannon. If a foe such as Magearna or Mega Gardevoir tries to boost their Special Defense, use Work Up until both Pokemon are at +6, and then use Substitute until at 25% health. Certain matchups like Magearna are a toss-up, as if their Special Defense boosts reach +6, the benefit from Petaya Berry is lost. Against Pokemon like Mega Gardevoir and Tapu Lele that try to boost their Special Defense, use Substitute and then boost up with Work Up in order to win. If running Haze, use it to mitigate stat boosts from moves like Dragon Dance and Calm Mind. Make sure to not Haze away your Petaya Berry boost though! Only use Water Shuriken against Sturdy users. Unless the foe uses multi-hit moves and will faint to an unboosted Water Shuriken, like Golem, use Substitute to reach 25% health to get the Torrent and Petaya Berry boosts and then use it to hopefully KO the foe. If an opposing Pokemon uses a move like Shell Smash to boost their Speed, keep using Substitute, as they cannot eliminate Greninja if it is behind a Substitute. Between Petaya Berry and Waterium Z, they play largely similarly except against status users and Pokemon that can survive a hit from a Petaya Berry-boosted Hydro Cannon. Waterium Z allows you to use Hydro Vortex followed by Hydro Cannon the next turn, beating some Substitute users. In addition to this, with Petaya Berry, you cannot let the foe reach +6, as the advantage gained from Petaya Berry is lost. However, you can safely get to +6 with Waterium Z, as you still keep the damage boost.
Team Options
========
Pokemon that can deal with common threats to this set like Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Mega Lopunny, and Choice Scarf users such as Landorus-T, Porygon-Z, and Sawk are very good partners. Examples include Magearna, Mega Metagross, and Tapu Lele, all of which have their weaknesses to Mega Charizard X and Y, Magearna, and Jumpluff covered by Greninja. Pokemon such as Zeraora and Magnezone that can deal with the bulky Water-types that typically beat Greninja like Tapu Fini and Primarina are great teammates as well and appreciate having their matchups against Mega Charizard X and Y and non-Choice Scarf Landorus-T covered.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Synonimous, 457703]]
- Quality checked by: [[Alakazam, 276708], [Freddy Kyogre, 321529], [Osra, 239997]]
- Grammar checked by: [[deetah, 297659], [Rabia, 336073]]
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