The Everything NFL Thread

[CaptKirby]

Good notes from Tuesday Morning Quarterback

Detroit finished last in defense, 19th in offense, and coach Rod Marinelli, who supervises the defense, fired offensive coordinator Mike Martz, seeming to blame him for the team's late-season collapse.

Stat of the Week No. 2: The 12-5 Jaguars have no one in the Pro Bowl, while the 5-11 Ravens send three players

 

[Agamemnon]

Stat of the Week No. 2: The 12-5 Jaguars have no one in the Pro Bowl, while the 5-11 Ravens send three players

fred taylor is going in place of fast willie

 

[CaptKirby]

That does not change the fact that zero players from a dominant playoff team were voted into the Pro Bowl, while players from a pitiful team were based upon reputation!

 

[Agamemnon]

in the words of Dr. Z, it is possible to have a dominant team with no allstars. also, name 3 players from the jags not named, maurice jones drew, david garrard, and fred taylor. also, for every "dominant" jag, there is easily at least 2 other players in the afc that do the job better.

edit: im also curious as to why it matters what team a player plays for to be voted to the pro bowl. and also curious which players you're talking about who got voted in on their reputation alone.

 

[CaptKirby]

It is possible, but Fred Taylor was one of the top five running backs this season, and I would list that order as Adrian Peterson (ugh stupid Sooner), Brian Westbrook, Fred Taylor, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marion Barber III, so it is not true!

Of course I can name two other Jaguars without even thinking more than a second about it (Reggie Williams and Matt Jones), the former because he is probably the most popular Jaguar of all, and the latter because I am a Texas Longhorn.

From the Ravens, at least Jonathan Odgen and Ray Lewis made it in on reputation alone. I will not comment on Ed Reed since I have not paid much attention to him this year - and the fact I can remember these three guys are all-stars just because they are the Ravens who have been considered super amazing defenders in the past is enough to testify to the fact they have lofty reputations. If you want to discuss the whole NFL (which this argument already took place in this thread, so I do not really want to dredge it back up), Larry Fitzgerald and Tony Gonzalez (mostly the latter) both made it in on reputation alone.

It always matters which team a player plays for, because true stars usually take their team to another level. Of course, no one player can win a game alone, but there is a reason teams with dependable franchise QBs e.g. Petyon Manning and Tom Brady are always the most competitive

 

[Agamemnon]

It is possible, but Fred Taylor was one of the top five running backs this season, and I would list that order as Adrian Peterson (ugh stupid Sooner), Brian Westbrook, Fred Taylor, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marion Barber III, so it is not true!

Of course I can name two other Jaguars without even thinking more than a second about it (Reggie Williams and Matt Jones), the former because he is probably the most popular Jaguar of all, and the latter because I am a Texas Longhorn.

From the Ravens, at least Jonathan Odgen and Ray Lewis made it in on reputation alone. I will not comment on Ed Reed since I have not paid much attention to him this year - and the fact I can remember these three guys are all-stars just because they are the Ravens who have been considered super amazing defenders in the past is enough to testify to the fact they have lofty reputations. If you want to discuss the whole NFL (which this argument already took place in this thread, so I do not really want to dredge it back up), Larry Fitzgerald and Tony Gonzalez (mostly the latter) both made it in on reputation alone.

It always matters which team a player plays for, because true stars usually take their team to another level. Of course, no one player can win a game alone, but there is a reason teams with dependable franchise QBs e.g. Petyon Manning and Tom Brady are always the most competitive

dude, look up the stats. you have no idea what youre talking about. look at the stats in terms of yardage adn tds and you'll see that fred taylor is 9th in yardage and 20th in tds. look up the stats to see how fitz had 1400 yards and 10 tds. or how gonzo had 1100 yards and 5 tds. how he broke records for TE this year.

thats a stupid point you make about the team a player plays for. lets just disregard all the players who play for the bills or the niners or the cards that made it to the pro bowl. fuck patrick willis cuz the niners went 5-11.

think before you post plox

 

[CaptKirby]

I am not coming at you in an adversarial manner or trolling or flaming you, yet you are admonishing me over something as if I am a child, so please do not presume that you are an astonishing ejaculation of knowledge, while I am a murmuring cesspool of ignorance! Do not tell someone 'think before you post plox' when you do not even look at all the statistics. Being dismissive and rude will get you nowhere.

Of all the players with more than, to set an arbitrary limit that is 'good,' 1000 yards, Fred Taylor has the second highest yards per carry by a large margin. Willie Parker, Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James, and Willis McGahee all had a higher rushing total, but anywhere from an abysmal 3.8 to a merely alright 4.1 yards per carry. Besides he and Adrian Peterson, no one else above 1000 yards broke 5.0 yards per carry, let alone came near their respective 5.4 and 5.6.

Another stat that you failed to take into account, in your rush to be dismissive, was fumbles, where LaDanian Tomlinson and Brian Westbrook and Joseph Addai tied for first among 1000 yard rushers with none, and then Marshawn Lynch with only one, and then Fred Taylor tied with others with 2 - but no one else above him in yardage except Tomlinson and Westbrook.

 

[Agamemnon]

i apologize for my rudeness. however i have looked at the stats. you are right in the yards per carry, however my point is that he is not a top 5 running back. in fact i agree with you that taylor should have gone to the pro bowl, yet he is definitely not a top 5 running back. if you look at the number times hes carried the ball, hes about 50-60 carries away from the average. he carried the ball almost 100 times less than LT.

 

[CaptKirby]

...that is because he is sharing about equal time with another running back, as opposed to being the main focus of an entire offense. It is not as if I am discussing a running back who only had 60 carries and averaged 6 yards per carry. Too many carries is as much of a bad thing as too few carries, and there is nothing wrong with being selfless and sharing time with another amazing running back. He is in the top ten for total yardage, and of those top ten, the four I mentioned in my prior post are decidedly inferior, averaging only 3.8 to 4.1 yards per carry, or about 70% (rounded down) to 76% (rounded up) the performance of Taylor, so at worst he is only in the top six RBs, and that is if you want to give Jamal Lewis a nod over him.

 

[Agamemnon]

the thing about ypc is that it lower carry attempts usually leads to a higher ypc stat. taylor also only had 5 tds. that is not top 5 running back numbers no matter what the ypc is. which rb's are you putting ahead of taylor. i assume LT, AD, westbrook. but who else? and before you get a chance to say it, fast willie only had 2 tds all season. i dont understand how he got voted to the pro bowl as his numbers arent as good as those of taylors. he only had 100 less yards and 3 more tds, while splitting time. i rank the top rbs this season as LT, AD, westbrook, lewis, marion the barbarian.

 

[CaptKirby]

I already nullified that argument - Taylor is not a running back who has high yards per carry because he only carried 100 or 150 times - he carried 223 times, which is a perfectly high amount to provide a body of work to prove it is not by chance or because he has a light load.

Why are you ignoring the facts! There are only six running backs you can include in this conversation - Adrian Peterson (absolutely #1), LaDanian Tomlinson (probably #2 to most people, but not me - but I am presenting this in a manner trying to be objective, so I will move him here), Westbrook is certainly #3. Then only Jamal Lewis and Fred Taylor are candidates from the top ten most yards - the rest of the runners are abysmal. Marion Barber III, Ryan Grant, and Justin Fargas all have arguments to be next in line (and I put Barber over Jamal Lewis out of favoritism, but he probably is not really or the stats would show it more!).

TDs are not just the result of a RB's effort, as they are a team effort. TDs only show a running back's talent when they are a ridiculous amount (at least above 20) I would say!

 

[Fight Two Demons]

Of all the players with more than, to set an arbitrary limit that is 'good,' 1000 yards, Fred Taylor has the second highest yards per carry by a large margin. Willie Parker, Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James, and Willis McGahee all had a higher rushing total, but anywhere from an abysmal 3.8 to a merely alright 4.1 yards per carry. Besides he and Adrian Peterson, no one else above 1000 yards broke 5.0 yards per carry, let alone came near their respective 5.4 and 5.6.

Ryan grant was very close to 1,000
and had a 5.1.
and that's from the team with "no rush offence."

also, I understand Adrian Peterson is a great running back.
But let's look at him towards the end of the season.
VS DENVER
11 Carries, 36 yards, 8 long. 3.3 Average.
Vs the number 30 ranked Rush Defence.
It's not like he didn't try...they had to win to get in. haha...Well try

VS Washington
9 carries, 27 yards, 18 long. 3.0 average

VS Chicago
20 carries, 78 yards, long 28. 3.9 average
This was the team he put up 224 yards against.

VS San Fran
14 carries, 3 yards, long 4. 0.2 average.

He just got realllly shut down the end of the season.
Which really hurt their run for the playoffs
Every game before that he destroyed tho. haha

Marion the Barbarion is almost as good as my Laurence Monsteroney.

but my list is probably...
LT, Adrian Peterson, Fred Taylor, Willie Parker, Jamal Lewis, Ryan Grant.

 

[Steeler]

yeah, willie parker wasn't getting the ball in the end zone because najeh davenport was getting those carries in the red zone.

the same argument applies to fred taylor, so that point is kinda moot!!

 

[Agamemnon]

ok capt kirby, points taken. however AD may not be the best RB this year. its true he had two freaking amazing games, but as demons said, he had shitty games at the end of the season. i just cant wait for next year. if mcnabb goes to the vikings and AD stays there, they'll be a force to be reckoned with. even though they have no receivers, at least they wont be able to clog the box with 8 guys.

 

[makiri]

Because he wasn't hurt and gameplanned for right?

 

[Steeler]

mcnabb would have the same problem he'd always had in minnesota, no recievers, and now he'd have AD who is inferior to Westbrook in terms of multi-purpose and recieving...

anyways, AD is the best RB

...at his best

but he (was) a rookie, what did you expect? he was really inconsistent, next year he'll improve and within a few years become a huge force to be reckoned with

 

[Agamemnon]

i dont think it was him being a rookie was the problem. it was more like the vikings were one dimensional and teams began just preparing for the run. we'll see if the pats or the cowboys make a run at AD. im thinking jerry jones would easily offer julius jones and a first rounder.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

I'm pretty sure if I was a defense, I'd pretty much don't want to end up like the Chargers so I'd give up everything else, especially from the Vikings passing attack, to stop Peterson, which would probably result in him getting slowed down towards the end....but that's just conventional logic.

 

[Steeler]

hmm...i suppose so. jackson was really starting to come along though. regardless, even if you are gameplanning for him,

VS San Fran
14 carries, 3 yards, long 4. 0.2 average.

and

VS DENVER
11 Carries, 36 yards, 8 long. 3.3 Average.
Vs the number 30 ranked Rush Defence.

were pretty damn horrid. i'm sure teams did a better job of containing and such when they realized AD (AP??) was such a threat but still...

 

[Sir Chris]

Rookie wall, it happens.

Oh and let me give a cry for my poor bucs.

 

[Tmnt Boy]

Since everyone is bitching about top 5 running backs of the year i will chime in.

#1) Brian Westbrook - Your prolly thought i would go AP or LT. But no Westbrook is my number 1 running back of the 2007 season. 1333 yards with another 771 in receiving yards. Westbrook had 90 receptions this season, that is more than pro bowl receivers Donald Driver and Braylon Edwards. No one runs a screen better than Brian Westbrook. He had a great season.

#2) LT - Yes, i put him in front of AP. He had more rushing yards and more rushing touchdowns. Yeah so you will say that AP averaged more rush yards per game than LT did. Your right AP averaged 3 more yards. But LT also had 60 rec for 475 yards while AP had 19 rec for 268 yards. LT also has the best QB rating in the NFL.



#3) Adrian Peterson - He had a great rookie season but teams brought 8 in the box and he couldn't get it done any more. For him to progress he needs some good WR.

#4) Jamal Lewis - I admit i had written him off. But he was a force for the Browns this year. He averaged 4.4 yards per carry and recorded 1304 rush yard this season.

#5) Fred Taylor - No one can say that Fred Taylor even at his old age didn't have a great season this year. He averaged 5.4 yards per carry. And rushed for 1202 yards on only 223 attempts.

Honorable mentions go to

Marion Barber III - A great season. A late game threat. He averaged 4.8 yards per carry and also did great catching the ball out of the backfield. Why he doesn't get more carries i don't know. I think nothing of Julius Jones and have not seen him do anything to warrant giving him carries over Barber.

Brandon Jacobs - He was third in rush yards per game averaging 91.7 yards per game. And 5.0 yards per rush. Although his receiving stats aren't bad for a running back, I have seen him drop way to many passes. But if your a defensive back and you are forced to tackle this beast in the open field. I'm sorry.

 

[Agamemnon]

the barber/jones tandem was interesting. the cowboys would use jones to soften up defenses for barber to burst through the holes on fresh legs.

 

[CaptKirby]

Just because Adrian Peterson slowed down at the end does not take away from the beginning, and he kind of um started less games than LaDainian Tomlinson because of injury (man I was leaving an i out of his name for like the last four years, I feel like an ass!). Adrian Peterson ran better than anyone else more than anyone else. Westbrook was amazing, and I would rank him over LT, but not Adrian Peterson. Me putting LT #2 was just me trying to be objective and look at it how people in general probably would look at it.

 

[Loki]

agree with tmnt boy's list. westbrook was the best complete running back in the nfl this year. maybe not the best runner but the best rb, there is a difference. being a good running back also means being good at picking up rushers in pass protection and catching balls out of the backfield. why do you think the vikings still used chester taylor? he's a solid veteran that knows how to pass protect and find a way to get open and be a safety valve for the qb.

 

[Mr.E]

Jones doesn't do a very good job softening up defenses, he's not even a power back, defense just naturally gets tired after playing a bit. :P Jones' contract is up this year and he doesn't even care about returning to Dallas, so next season Barber should take up starter duties. Barber saw the field more than Jones did this year anyway.

Westbrook was definitely the best overall back this season and it's about time he gets some credit because he's been this good for years. LT didn't have monster stats like he did last year, but he still put up "Top 5" numbers and no fumbles for his amount of carries is very impressive. I have no problem calling him #2 this year.