CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment

[Darkflagrance]

As somebody mentioned, Pure Power allows us to bypass the stat cap that is in place. Even with a base 30 attack, it has the ability to reach base 110 attack, which gives a lot of leeway for the other stats as it barely affects BST. It's hard to undershoot something like that.

Bypassing the stat cap is really a crappy reason considering that we have total control over the CAP and can make the BST whatever we want it to be. It would amount fundamentally to a disguised flavor argument. The real use for Pure Power is in doubles, allowing the pokemon carrying the ability to swap it to a partner.

Unfortunately I don't think doubles are a concern for CAP. They certainly haven't so in the past.

 

[Deck Knight]

But one could undershooting it though one would have to ask if it's even possible to undershoot a Pokemon that have the ability Pure/Huge Power?

BTW, wasn't aware Simple was banned atm. Was they're some basic argument about it's placement or everyone just say "ban it" without reason?

hhjj~ Didn't Snorlax put Thick Fat to go use, not that I'm saying it's a bad idea to give it Thick Fat.

Although you can mess with the BSR calculator since it doesn't account for things like Pure Power, you should at a bare minimum insert the adjusted Base Atk, which I would calculate as the Atk with 124 EVs applied (because each 4 EVs is double value, there will be the same "range(63 points)" of attack scores.

Erego, Medicham's BSR is not 130 (Poor) that uses it's nominal 60 Base Attack, it's adjusted Base Attack with only 64 points that could be added is 169, which bumps its BSR up to Very Good (413).

Ditto with Azumarill, whose unadjusted BSR is 141(Poor) but when adjusted with 124 EVs (64 max addable) its adjusted base attack is 149, pushing it up to 250 (Quite Good).

We use BSR to determine the pokemon, and even if we didn't Pure Power would not magically erase the BST limit. If the poster were honest in any way they would use the adjusted Base Attack.

Also, Thick Fat should be unallowed given that Snorlax possesses and makes use of it. It is thus not neglected.

 

[blakcharz77]

What is the argument against Own Tempo? It could be effective against swagger.

 

[Robo-Ky]

What is the argument against Own Tempo? It could be effective against swagger.

True, but Swagger is never seen in standard play. Own Tempo would be effective with Outrage, though, since Dragon seems to be the secondary type of choice.

 

[Blazebat]

True, but Swagger is never seen in standard play. Own Tempo would be effective with Outrage, though, since Dragon seems to be the secondary type of choice.

True own tempo is a neglected ability but we do not learn much from having a dragon that just outrages every time it comes i except against steels. Own tempo is definitely a neglected ability we just do not learn anything by making sure a team needs at least one bulky steel type if not two.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Since the metagame is offensive right now, I support having a defensive Pokemon with Rough Skin to make Stall more viable.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Since the metagame is offensive right now, I support having a defensive Pokemon with Rough Skin to make Stall more viable.

Are you talking about Standard or CAP ?_?

The CAP metagame is not offensive. Stall kicks ass.

 

[Arcticblast]

Confusion is a somewhat rare and unreliable status effect in competitive play, self-inflicted confusion being almost the only confusion seen. Own Tempo really isn't that good of a competitive ability. (Swagger works okay on Unaware Bibarel, though.)

...which brings me to the subject of Unaware.

If a Pokemon with the ability Unaware is the target of an attack, all of the attacker's [Special] Attack boosts are ignored. If a Pokemon with the ability Unaware is attacking, all of the defender's [Special] Defense boosts are ignored. If an Unaware Pokemon is using Punishment, stat boosts still factor into its power. If an Unaware Pokemon hits itself in its confusion, it still keeps its altered Attack and Defense stats.

The only pokemon with Unaware are Bibarel and the godly Bidoof, and this could bring SD Scizor, DD Gyarados, etc. crashing down. I think it should be Allowed seeing as it's not on any lists.

 

[tennisace]

You mean Bibarel and Arghonaut, the latter of which puts it to amazing use and therefore Unaware isn't neglected.

 

[viperGTS]

Hi, im new to CAP, but i want to try to help.

I think Quick Feet is an interesting ability. A slow yet bulky pokemon (maybe base 60-80 speed) with good attacking stats could make use of it pretty good.

 

[Arcticblast]

You mean Bibarel and Arghonaut, the latter of which puts it to amazing use and therefore Unaware isn't neglected.

Ahh, I forgot Arghonaut. My apologies.

 

[franky]

If the CAP's secondary typing becomes Dragon, I'm all for Own Tempo to spam and Outrage and work with Swagger. It can also destroy Stall Teams which is problematic on the CAP server

 

[Lightning Storm]

BTW, wasn't aware Simple was banned atm. Was they're some basic argument about it's placement or everyone just say "ban it" without reason?

You were Unaware that Simple was banned? Interesting. :P

I fail to see how an outrage spamming own tempo poke would teach us anything. The point made about Swagger doesn't make much sense either, seeing as any smart person wouldn't use it against and Own Tempo Physical attacker, or a physical attacker at all. It isn't even used that much anyways!

I'm all for Aftermath, Color Change, or Synchronize. They are all great abilities, and fun to use as well.

Forecast? Unallowed? Nooo! WHY! I was hoping for a electric/dragon Zeus-Type weather monster! I get the reasoning behind it, but it was JUST SO AWESOME!

 

[Gregar]

Since the secondary typing poll is closed, it's clear we're getting a Dragon for this one. Thanks to outrage, I strongly advise to put Own Tempo and Tangled Feet on the Not Allowed list...

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Magic Guard is an awesome ability with nearly endless options on what role a Pokemon could preform. Having the immunity to entry hazards, damaging weather, recoils (from recoil and Life Orb recoil), and status damage aids a pokemon in offense, defense, switching in/out you name it. The only problem is that it's on a Pokemon that isn't very good at the moment. If given onto a creature with better typing, stat, and movepool Magic Guard could shine like 1000 suns.

Says it all, really. Magic Guard FTW. Minor nitpick with GT's logic though,: Clefable, the only legit Magic Guard user has a movepool out the wazoo. You'd be hard pressed to give CAP8 a better movepool than Clefable.

 

[Veedrock]

If an ability is already on the allowed list, do not bring it up unless you want it off the list. This thread is not to support or rally for any specific ability, only compile a list. If you strongly feel we should use a certain ability, wait until the ability discussion.

 

[Cartoons!]

BTW, wasn't aware Simple was banned atm. Was they're some basic argument about it's placement or everyone just say "ban it" without reason?

Because of the nature of Baton Passing, I had suggested Simple be placed in 'banned' until we had a clearer image of the Pokemon we were creating. Given its Electric typing it's unlikely Arghonaut would be able to come in and shut it down if it had been passed some nasty boosts, and a common phazer like Skarmory wouldn't have the opportunity either.

If you'd like to argue how Simple might not be broken, feel free; it's a pretty interesting ability to be sure.

 

[Deck Knight]

Because of the nature of Baton Passing, I had suggested Simple be placed in 'banned' until we had a clearer image of the Pokemon we were creating. Given its Electric typing it's unlikely Arghonaut would be able to come in and shut it down if it had been passed some nasty boosts, and a common phazer like Skarmory wouldn't have the opportunity either.

If you'd like to argue how Simple might not be broken, feel free; it's a pretty interesting ability to be sure.

People are already screeching about Outrage before we even decide stats. Unless for some reason this ends up with somehting along the lines of 60 Base attack, there will be a whole hoard of people who will be like "yea right +4 Outrage if you pass it a single Swords Dance no way!." Same sort of logic with both Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt, although Nasty Plot's rarity makes it harder to pull off.

 

[Zystral]

Early Bird halves the number of turns a Pokemon stays asleep right? And the fact that nearly every regular Pokemon lears Rest, CAP8 will be no exception, right?

If this is so, I think Early Bird should be banned, as this turns Rest into Recover+Refresh into one with an extra turn wait, and if we do go with the Tank/Stall type of Pokemon, this will be too much, as most of the time, if a Wall/Tank/Staller is given a Status Infliction, it may have a hard time getting rid of it, depending on the Pokemon in question, and if the Pokemon has a Status and low health, unless it has RestTalk, it can only restore its health while still letting the Status get to it.

And even if it has RestTalk, it has a 1/4 chance of choosing Rest again, and a 1/4 chance of choosing Sleep Talk again, which may end up in Rest or whatever. And if this is a CroSet, the problem is worsened slightly. Now, in the two turns it is asleep, something could easily switch in, and destroy it first.

If we were to have this Early Bird Tank, it would be asleep for one turn completely immobile, during which the opponent switches, but then you see what they switch into, and this then lets you use one of 3 offensive moves to hit them back as you wake up. This, I think is a bit too overpowering.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I suggest Battle Armor and Shell Armor be moved to Unallowed. Pyroak already uses Battle Armor in the CAP metagame. Thanks to Leech Seed, Battle Armor, and it's high defences, Pyroak is already a fantastic addition to any stall team, and is capable of out-stalling a large number of Pokemon.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Because of the nature of Baton Passing, I had suggested Simple be placed in 'banned' until we had a clearer image of the Pokemon we were creating. Given its Electric typing it's unlikely Arghonaut would be able to come in and shut it down if it had been passed some nasty boosts, and a common phazer like Skarmory wouldn't have the opportunity either.

If you'd like to argue how Simple might not be broken, feel free; it's a pretty interesting ability to be sure.

Don't really have an argument against the ability actually as I'm fine with where it's placed. It seem I wasn't aware Simple was even suggested up until now and ask about it.

Says it all, really. Magic Guard FTW. Minor nitpick with GT's logic though,: Clefable, the only legit Magic Guard user has a movepool out the wazoo. You'd be hard pressed to give CAP8 a better movepool than Clefable.

Not entirely, but that doesn't mean we can't try :p. In all seriousness, if MG was placed on a pokemon with better stats and/or typings I would be most happy (If MG manages to stay within the game for that long)

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Because of the nature of Baton Passing, I had suggested Simple be placed in 'banned' until we had a clearer image of the Pokemon we were creating. Given its Electric typing it's unlikely Arghonaut would be able to come in and shut it down if it had been passed some nasty boosts, and a common phazer like Skarmory wouldn't have the opportunity either.

If you'd like to argue how Simple might not be broken, feel free; it's a pretty interesting ability to be sure.

Hippowdon is a pretty common phazer too. It doesn't see as much use as Skarm but donphan would be able to come in with no worries. Not that I'm defending the ability, I don't like it much, but for the sake of a legitimate arguement we have to look at all the phazers, not just the most common. Also I believe Fidgit carries whirlwind, and stands at #11.

And even if it has RestTalk, it has a 1/4 chance of choosing Rest again, and a 1/4 chance of choosing Sleep Talk again, which may end up in Rest or whatever.

1. If you choose Rest while your asleep it does nothing
2. If your using Sleep Talk there is not way you can pick Sleep Talk. So a Sleep Talk set give you a 2/3 chance to attack/ boost
3. CAP8 is Ice Weak/ Dragon Weak/ Ground Weak, so you don't think that in one turn, unless it's pretty bulky, that it doesn't have a fair chance of being OHKOed? Or better yet set up on?

I agree that Early Bird should be unallowed but only because it's not competitively useful for this CAP. It would be better off trying a chesto/rest set than a Rest Talk set

I suggest Battle Armor and Shell Armor be moved to Unallowed. Pyroak already uses Battle Armor in the CAP metagame. Thanks to Leech Seed, Battle Armor, and it's high defences, Pyroak is already a fantastic addition to any stall team, and is capable of out-stalling a large number of Pokemon.

I'm pretty sure they already are.

 

[tennisace]

Fidgit does not carry Whirlwind normally. I'd rather not make this have overspecialized counters in order to accommodate an ability, when we can give it an ability that's just as useful.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Hippowdon is a pretty common phazer too. It doesn't see as much use as Skarm but donphan would be able to come in with no worries. Not that I'm defending the ability, I don't like it much, but for the sake of a legitimate arguement we have to look at all the phazers, not just the most common. Also I believe Fidgit carries whirlwind, and stands at #11.

| Fidgit     | Move         | Encore           |    68.2 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Earth Power      |    61.6 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Stealth Rock     |    57.2 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Wish             |    43.2 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Shadow Ball      |    31.5 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Spikes           |    30.1 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Toxic Spikes     |    27.1 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Rapid Spin       |    26.7 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | U-turn           |    17.5 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Sludge Bomb      |     6.5 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Taunt            |     5.5 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Gravity          |     5.1 |
| Fidgit     | Move         | Other (6)        | <   4.5 |

Where do you see Whirlwind?

How can you say Hippowdon and Donphan can switch in with no worries? This thing is most likely going to have more of a movepool than just Electric attacks, and they both have little to no special defense. On top of that, very few people use either Hippowdon or Donphan because of equally good or better walls like Arghonaut and Pyroak.

Honestly, play CAP once in a while or don't post.

I agree that Simple on an Electric Pokemon should remain Unallowed unless the Bias Poll indicates that it won't be scaring Arghonaut.

 

[Joatmon]

I think I can attest to the usage of Whirlwind in "other", ha, but agreed in the fact that Fidget is not a reliable phazer at all in my opinion.