CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment

[Deck Knight]

I'm generally opposed to Magic Guard on the same premise as Simple.

Magic Guard's biggest unnoticed effect is it even removes Life Orb recoil. Firing off Life Orb Outrages and Draco Meteors and getting 30% more damage for free is insane (or even completely recoil-free Volt Tackles!). Add to that it can come in as a Late Game sweeper and take zero damage from Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sandstorm, Hail, and Toxic Spikes (and in fact, prevent its own burn and paralysis in such a scenario) is mindblowingly powerful. I'd rather not have to sacrifice Outrage, Volt Tackle, and Draco Meteor just out of pure fear of what a late-game LO Sweeper with Magic Guard could do with them.

If you want to avoid imbalance, I'd recommend against Magic Guard.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Honestly, play CAP once in a while or don't post.

Honestly I do play on the CAP server once in a while, and when I'm there it take hours judt to get a single battle. It's almost impossible for someone who has to leave the house to get high speed internet (The computer in the house that has internet won't work with java) to play on the server. I do the best I can with the Statistics but it takes forever just to have one page open at a time, so I can't really be looking back and forth. Not to mention you can also use Encore as a puesdohazing move almost as effectively as whirlwind, and whether not many people use Hippowdon and Donphan they still exist and there for should be discounted.

Besides I wasn't even supporting Simple. Just stating facts about phazers that could possible be used.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I'm generally opposed to Magic Guard on the same premise as Simple.

Magic Guard's biggest unnoticed effect is it even removes Life Orb recoil. Firing off Life Orb Outrages and Draco Meteors and getting 30% more damage for free is insane (or even completely recoil-free Volt Tackles!). Add to that it can come in as a Late Game sweeper and take zero damage from Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sandstorm, Hail, and Toxic Spikes (and in fact, prevent its own burn and paralysis in such a scenario) is mindblowingly powerful. I'd rather not have to sacrifice Outrage, Volt Tackle, and Draco Meteor just out of pure fear of what a late-game LO Sweeper with Magic Guard could do with them.

To be honest I think you're worrying alittle too much. Mindbogglingly powerful? maybe but that doesn't mean it's not impossible to balance said Magic Guarder in somewhat. Worrying about the lose of Outrage, Volt Tackle, and Draco Meteor is nice, but those moves aren't guaranteed to make it onto it's movepool even if they're stabbed. Have some fate within the community and be a little more adventurous, you never if you're right or not until you actually try it.

 

[Deck Knight]

To be honest I think you're worrying alittle too much. Mindbogglingly powerful? maybe but that doesn't mean it's not impossible to balance said Magic Guarder in somewhat. Worrying about the lose of Outrage, Volt Tackle, and Draco Meteor is nice, but those moves aren't guaranteed to make it onto it's movepool even if they're stabbed. Have some fate within the community and be a little more adventurous, you never if you're right or not until you actually try it.

Somehow robbing a pokemon of all its potential attacks over 100 Base Power reminds me of a certain other electric pokemon people seem to dislike and call terrible.

I think it had Motor Drive though. I'm sure it will come to me. Given a choice between a ridiculous ability with a poor movepool and a less broken ability that allows a larger movepool, I'll go with the latter. We're going to end up "Balancing" this down to Clefable's level, e.g. it will absolutely terrify and destroy everything in its path... in UU.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Honestly I do play on the CAP server once in a while, and when I'm there it take hours judt to get a single battle. It's almost impossible for someone who has to leave the house to get high speed internet (The computer in the house that has internet won't work with java) to play on the server. I do the best I can with the Statistics but it takes forever just to have one page open at a time, so I can't really be looking back and forth. Not to mention you can also use Encore as a puesdohazing move almost as effectively as whirlwind, and whether not many people use Hippowdon and Donphan they still exist and there for should be discounted.

Besides I wasn't even supporting Simple. Just stating facts about phazers that could possible be used.

I think you were talking about Soundproof, actually. (It was hard to tell, given that your post is made up almost entirely of jumbled nonsense.) Soundproof does nothing to stop Encores, and in fact Soundproof does almost nothing at all of any use, and so I suggest it actually be moved to Unallowed.

As for Battle Armor and Shell Armor, they were moved there after my post.

 

[the_artic_one]

Immunity to perish song and roar is pretty good for a baton passer.

 

[m190049]

Soundproof also blocks sleep moves like Sing and Grasswhistle (as uncommon as they are).

I'd say the ability is quite solid if you ask me.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Immunity to perish song and roar is pretty good for a baton passer.

Why do you need to be immune to Roar? The only really common user of the move is Skarmory, who usually uses Whirlwind and will take a ton of damage from a Thunderbolt anyway. Perish Song has fallen completely into disuse, and Grasswhistle and Sing might as well not even exist.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Given a choice between a ridiculous ability with a poor movepool and a less broken ability that allows a larger movepool, I'll go with the latter.

Not if the latter is of Electvire quality then I rather go with the former. Having a "poor" movepool really depends on many factors. It would fucking hilarious though if this damn thing didn't get a large movepool, powerful stab, etc...even after everything was said and done because then everyone would be worrying for nothing.

We're going to end up "Balancing" this down to Clefable's level, e.g. it will absolutely terrify and destroy everything in its path... in UU.

Highly unlikely but it will be funny to see that go down. CAP would most likely make it an OU even if it had no DM/Outrage/Volt Tackle at it dispose (that if even have good offensive stats to begin with). Hell that would be one hell of a challenge to give onto this project "Awesome ability, fewer choices but still manage to kicking OU asses" . Like I said earlier, have some fate in people once in a while. You never know, they might pull through in the end. Slapping Magic Guard onto it wouldn't break the metagame with proper care.

 

[cyberzero]

Why do you need to be immune to Roar? The only really common user of the move is Skarmory, who usually uses Whirlwind and will take a ton of damage from a Thunderbolt anyway. Perish Song has fallen completely into disuse, and Grasswhistle and Sing might as well not even exist.

Actually, that's not completely true. Roar does exist on the Swamperts, and although you are right about the complete invalidity of Sing and Grasswhistle, Perish Song is used on Celebi a lot in CAP, as Baton Pass teams are ever more common there due to effectiveness and playstyle.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Well, yes, but Swampert has been rapidly falling out of favour ever since the advent of Arghonaut (which can Roar, but very rarely does).

Also, I don't think I've even seen a Perish Song Celebi apart from the one I used a while ago with very little success.

How are Baton Pass teams particularly effective? Doesn't Arghonaut completely defeat the point of Baton Pass?

 

[cyberzero]

Well, yes, but Swampert has been rapidly falling out of favour ever since the advent of Arghonaut (which can Roar, but very rarely does).

Also, I don't think I've even seen a Perish Song Celebi apart from the one I used a while ago with very little success.

How are Baton Pass teams particularly effective? Doesn't Arghonaut completely defeat the point of Baton Pass?

The DS > Gliscor > Metagross plan still beats Arghonaut because Zen Headbutt is STAB'd by Metagross and 2HKO's it, including a chance of flinching.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Arghonaut can take large chunks out of Gliscor with Brick Break + Waterfall/Ice Punch before it can Pass, so it's not a bad check, if only to force Gliscor to Baton Pass earlier than it would like to. Maybe more Arghonaut need to run Roar, and then there would be a real purpose for Soundproof.

Until then, the primary method of phazing in CAP continues to be Fidgit's Encore, which Soundproof does nothing to prevent. I still believe it should be Unallowed due to lack of effectiveness.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

I think you were talking about Soundproof, actually. (It was hard to tell, given that your post is made up almost entirely of jumbled nonsense.) Soundproof does nothing to stop Encores, and in fact Soundproof does almost nothing at all of any use, and so I suggest it actually be moved to Unallowed.

As for Battle Armor and Shell Armor, they were moved there after my post.

No, I was talking about Simple, because someone earlier said it was broken. I'm not a complete idiot, I do know what abilities do what.

 

[petrie911]

Why is Forewarn not on the allowed list? It's a great ability. I mean, how is seeing your opponent's most powerful move ever not useful? You can see whether a dragon type has Draco Meteor, whether anything has explosion, whether Starmie has Hydro Pump, whether Scizor has Superpower, etc.

 

[Zystral]

You've just proved why it's unallowed - it's too much of a good utility to have, especially if this CAP turns out to be a Wall type thing.

 

[petrie911]

You've just proved why it's unallowed - it's too much of a good utility to have, especially if this CAP turns out to be a Wall type thing.

Well, as much as I was touting its usefulness, it's hardly broken. Certainly no more broken than Frisk or Anticipation, which can also tell you a lot about your opponent's set. Anticipation is allowed, of course, and Frisk is only unallowed because Kitsunoh already makes good use of it.

Forewarn is not unallowed, BTW. Forecast is, but it does something very different, and is probably unallowed because it's just not very good.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

You've just proved why it's unallowed - it's too much of a good utility to have, especially if this CAP turns out to be a Wall type thing.

What are you talking about? At best Forewarn eases prediction, and it only works on the switch/ turn it's sent out. It's not like you have detailed info about every pokemon your opponent has. Most likely it was deemed useless.

Forecast is, but it does something very different, and is probably unallowed because it's just not very good.

I believe they moved it to unallowed due to Tyranitar and Sandstorm Teams are too common and Fore Cast isn't effected by Sandstorm (too bad that would be a very neat pokemon, eh maybe EVO would work in castform's favor so the ability can see some use)

 

[Raikuga]

I think that marvel scale would be a perfect ability to match the lizard-like dragon theme, and also a slightly defensive build. Rough skin and mold breaker also should get some recognition, but it really depends on if this is a physical, special, or both.

All we know is that if it's this balanced, it can't be TOO fast.

 

[zarator]

You've just proved why it's unallowed - it's too much of a good utility to have, especially if this CAP turns out to be a Wall type thing.

Too much? Seeing the ability of the past CAPs, Forewarn doesn't look "too much" by any means. With this judging meter, you could deem "too much" almost all CAPs made so far.

 

[bpblu]

Forewarn also doesn't give away a key move sometimes. Example: it's pretty much a no-brainer that Heatran will carry Fire Blast or Explosion, which is what Forewarn alerts you to (I think Explosion has priority, but I've hardly used Forewarn so I can't say for sure). Some Heatrans run HP Grass, which wreck Swamperts if they can predict a Swampert switching in. It's necessary to know certain moves so that you can ease your prediction woes, something Forewarn just doesn't do. More often than not, Forewarn just tells you stuff you already know (This Metagross has Meteor Mash or This Azelf has Explosion, stuff like that). It's helpful, but hardly useful.

 

[the_artic_one]

Imo it really depends on a pokemon's typing whether forewarn or anticipate is more useful. Neither are game breaking, neither are useless, both are overlooked, both should be allowed.

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

I think forewarn is useful and nowhere near game-breaking. The best thing it can do is sometimes reveal the build a certain poke is running, other times it will tell you something you already know. Besides, why would you be switching in your poke to use forewarn if you were not already confidant the poke with forewarn can counter it? Unless it's a suicide to try and figure it out for another poke, in which case you've made a sacrifice to find out that info. I believe forewarn should stay allowed.

 

[User 12783]

It seems to me, that my final-making concept from a CaP or two ago has finally been realized.

Concept: The Great Tank of China
Description: A tank designed to take hits, and dish a lot of them out as well

This Pokemon is the one me and tennisace are basically dying for. AKA type1/type2 tank, attacking and walling (most likely specially biased). It would be like Rhyperior in a sense, except it would be aimed for at the special side of the spectrum. The movepool would be able to hit hard, and could probably assist the team with moves such as Spikes / Stealth Rock, as well as status moves such as T-Wave which is a given.

It would be able to counter Heatran (if we add an ability or something, such as Levitate) and it already completely owns Zapdos for the most part (HP Ice may be the only problem). We can make it this fully adapted to the OU environment countering many threats. We can also make it so that it is more like Rhyperior ability-wise being able to actually counter a lot of threats. The typing is really subjective but type1/type2 is currently what I am hoping for. The main idea though is a tank, likely special biased so it isn't a mini-Rhyperior.

 

[ferron]

It seems to me, that my final-making concept from a CaP or two ago has finally been realized.

yes, i thought of the irony of that a while ago. i shall not critize it, but rather give my support it this time purely b/c it is what the community has decided (my only major critism before was that it felt to much like everything was decided ahead of time, which might cause too much poll-jumping)